Valuebetting queen high

TStoneMBD · #1 09-26-2005, 11:45 PM

SB is 17/13/1.4 4k hands. BB is a fish.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets

wheelz · #2 09-26-2005, 11:50 PM

looks easy enough to me

baronzeus · #3 09-26-2005, 11:50 PM

how many times are they not check-folding this river? i think you should just check behind and take down the pot.

wheelz · #4 09-26-2005, 11:53 PM

but BB is a fish. why not?

nervous · #5 09-26-2005, 11:54 PM

This leads me to thinking...

Is it standard to bet K-high on AAx flops?

baronzeus · #6 09-26-2005, 11:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but BB is a fish. why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know...isn't that like the scariest board in the world? even the fishiest of fish are going to fold there unless they have Q high....

maybe im just wrong though. as soon as stone showed me this hand i said "eww" and im a bit biased against value betting high-card hands.

Zoelef · #7 09-26-2005, 11:59 PM

This is way above my limit, but I want to at leaset provide substantiative input so that when I come across these situations, I'm familiar with them. So there.

Anyway.

PF: Openraising "20" on the Button is expected. You usually fold Tight-Neutral SB and if BB is a fish, you're typically ahead, I suppose. Getting 3-bet sucks here especially since SB is Tight-Neutral so I would guess his 3-bet range is quite narrow, maybe 99+/A-J+/K-Q. Obviously, you call his 3-bet because you're getting the odds to do so.

Flop: Check-through is fine, you're almost never ahead but you still have a gutshot and on rare occasions your Q is pot-splittable due to both the K and lack of a flush draw on board, so I would call a single bet on the flop regardless.

Turn: SB check is really interesting, He probably didn't connect on the board but 3-bet pf so he either isolated with crap or has an underpair. BB could have any two for all I know, if he has any legit agression he bets the turn with a boat, right? Right? Again, I check through as I have 'nothing' and I'd fold if bet into here.

River: Once again, check-throughs are bizarre. I don't like betting here because I expect that MHING. I can see why you throw a bet here -> no one shows agression -> no one has a hand and you have top kicker. It really comes down to whether or not you can make better hands fold or worse hands call. I suppose that BB being a fish implies that he may call with crap-high and that SB may have an underpair. Or, they may both call with QJ/QT/Q9 whatever. I believe it comes down to the classic decision of bet/fold or check-through, and I hate folding on the river, so I check through.

wheelz · #8 09-27-2005, 12:00 AM

i'm a bit biased for betting them. but i mean, you do think we've gotta be ahead here, so why not bet? it's not like you really have anything to lose.

baronzeus · #9 09-27-2005, 12:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i'm a bit biased for betting them. but i mean, you do think we've gotta be ahead here, so why not bet? it's not like you really have anything to lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i think we're ahead too. i guess betting isn't so bad i just personally am too much of a pussy [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

in the 0.01% chance you get raised you fold right?

wheelz · #10 09-27-2005, 12:05 AM

heh, well, i somehow misread this and was under the impression the pot was limped preflop... being 3-bet preflop certainly makes betting the river a lot tougher. i still like it though, because i still think you've got to have the best hand here. yeah i'd definitely fold to a raise.