Phil Ivey's home game - Page 5

Boris · #41 09-19-2003, 03:35 AM

Phil has been playing poker professionally for over 10 years now so you have to give him some credit for being a good player. you may not like that he doesn't play cash games very often, or you may not like his attitude, or you may not like a play that you saw him make, but the fact is that he has survived playing high stakes poker for an extended period of time. And this is not because he was/is independantly wealthy. So the mere fact that he has survived this long I think lends alot of credibility to his skill level. How long has Antonio been playing?

J.A.Sucker · #42 09-19-2003, 03:53 AM

That's a good point, though i think that antonion plays very well. We'll see how he stands the test of time, but I think he'll be fine. Really, though, this is all a moot point, as you well know, since I'm not either of those two guys, and their business is just that. However, from his writing and some comments that he makes about strategy, my opinion of Phil isn't so high when it comes to ring games, and I think that his grasp of the game isn't as good as he thinks it is. However, he is a top-notch tourney guy, and so he must have that set of skills down just fine. Since that's what he does, then that's fine, but it's possible that his tourney strategy is a result of him making the correct decisions, but for the wrong reasons. I'd like to know any opinions you have, if you feel like discussing them.

Hey Boris, one serious question. Who are you? I find it amazing that I haven't met you (though I suspect that I have while not realizing it.) It'd be cool to meet up with you sometime.

southerndog · #43 09-19-2003, 08:54 AM

Schmed · #44 09-19-2003, 08:55 AM

not aruging that PH is a great guy or anything but I want to respond to this.

"With $40 and a little luck most anyone can play in the WSOP, wait can win the WSOP. What credentials does that add to ones arsenal? If I told you I had entered the WSOP in the past would that make me more credible? Or Phil less credible? See how odd that statement of yours becomes? "

PH has won 8 events (I think it's 8, maybe 9) at the WSOP. Limit holdm, Omaha, NL Holdm. The guy can flat out play tourny Poker and any statement to the contrary is asinine

Rushmore · #45 09-19-2003, 09:40 AM

The hand history will show it if there's a bet and a call or no action on the end.

It's the equivalent of "Let me see that hand" in a B+M room when someone mucks on the end.

Wake up CALL · #46 09-19-2003, 10:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
not aruging that PH is a great guy or anything but I want to respond to this.

"With $40 and a little luck most anyone can play in the WSOP, wait can win the WSOP. What credentials does that add to ones arsenal? If I told you I had entered the WSOP in the past would that make me more credible? Or Phil less credible? See how odd that statement of yours becomes? "

PH has won 8 events (I think it's 8, maybe 9) at the WSOP. Limit holdm, Omaha, NL Holdm. The guy can flat out play tourny Poker and any statement to the contrary is asinine

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Schmed,

Taken out of the context of my entire post my quote does look funny. If you look more carefully I was responding to Daryn's assertion that if someone hasn't played in the WSOP they have no credibility to criticize Phil Helmuth. My quote shows that anyone can enter the WSOP (even with much less than $10K) and even win it. That fact alone does not make that person have more credibility when evaluating another players skills. In addition I don't believe I have criticized Mr. Helmuths tournament skills anywhere in this thread. I pointed out that he should find a much softer 100/200 ring game than the one he was attending else he might need a loan quite soon.

daryn · #47 09-19-2003, 12:09 PM

i still insist that he probably played in that game for fun. do you really think that he thinks that he has an edge in that game??? he is not stupid.

Schmed · #48 09-19-2003, 12:59 PM

and honestly didn't really mean to have the tone of that post be harsh, (see use of the word asinine). I guess I misread the gist of your post. I see it so much on this site about how PH can't play and blah blah blah blah..Hey I don't like the guy but I totally respect him as one of the top tourny players in the game. Obviously it's because a lot of people don't like the guys act but it's also because people are jealous. As for his ring play??? I dunno never played with the guy. I wouldn't look too much in to the fact that when he's shilling for Ultimate bet he loses a lot of chips. They want him to. He probably has a piece of that site and sitting there throwing around chips at a 4-8 table for free is just a way to attract more players to that site. "Come and take a shot at a world champion". Now there are people here who have played with him and DS an MM don't seem to respect his limit/ring game skills all that much,(then again I think DS respects like 2 peoples ring game skills besides his own...Ray and Mason... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) so I will defer to those people when talking about his ring skills.

As for finding a softer ring game....I'm thinkin every single one of them ought to go do that...I mean what is the EV for any of those guys sitting a table with each other... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I have to think that they just pushed chips back and forth while sitting around laughing and talking schit to each other...ya know....typical home game with your buddies....... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

It was kind of ironic but I was reading in that CP and I read Daniel ICANTSPELLHISLASTNAME's article about WPT in Paris. At the end of that article was a great Teddy R quote. I think it applies to a lot of the attitude towards PH

"it's not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled. or the doer of deeds could have done better. The Credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; who's face is marred by the dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasim, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievment and who, at worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly; so that his place shall never be with those cold timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat"

Teddy Roosevelt

ElSapo · #49 09-19-2003, 02:25 PM

That's a great quote, and it couldn't have been used in a better place. Nice post.

As for the home game in question, though it's perhaps not comprable in talent (at least not at my end), it seems similar to the 2+2 .5/1 game on Party this week. Definitely not a +EV play from my end, but I wouldn't have played any other table those nights.

BillE · #50 09-19-2003, 09:38 PM

in the last month or so, i was playing at annie duke's 4/8 omaha table at ub. having played there a few times, i was not surprised to see that the main railbird (hi knuteboy33) questions were "who is joe buttons". after watching annie state a million times that she could not reveal who it was, this one evening she stated that she knew who it was and couldn't reveal but that she was at his house that night for a home game (she was in cali for the big wpt tourney at the time). i thought that maybe it wsan't ivey bc i didn't know he had a house out there.. but for those who are interested in the "who is joe buttons" mystery, this is solid evidence that it is him.