Joy without suffering?

Jacob_Gilliam · #1 09-22-2005, 12:04 PM

Many wonder why God would cause some people to suffer. But is it possible to experience joy without suffering? If there never was any pain, would those things we find pleasurable still be pleasurable? Since both pain and pleasure are mental states (some things that are painful to some are pleasurable to others), if our mind did not know that some things are painful, how could it know that some things are pleasurable. Is it truely possible to always be happy and never sad?

#2 09-22-2005, 12:05 PM

I agree with where you are going, even if you don't intend to go there. So along your lines, is it possibly to be happy in heaven for eternity or suffering in hell?

Jacob_Gilliam · #3 09-22-2005, 12:09 PM

That's where I'm going

Good Idea · #4 09-23-2005, 08:59 PM

A person filled with joy may be either happy or sad. Happy and joyful are not synonyms. The opposite of happy is sad. Joy has no opposite.

Regardes,
GI

Aytumious · #5 09-23-2005, 09:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A person filled with joy may be either happy or sad. Happy and joyful are not synonyms. The opposite of happy is sad. Joy has no opposite.

Regardes,
GI

[/ QUOTE ]

Joyful sadness?

The 2nd definition of Joy from m-w.com:

2: a state of happiness or felicity

Also, FWIW my thesaurus lists joyful as a synonym of happy. Antonyms of joy are misery and despair.

In short, your post is ridiculous.

jester710 · #6 09-23-2005, 10:28 PM

I don't think he was referring to joy in the traditional sense, i.e. the one defined by the dictionary. It has become Christian-ese for a kind of spiritual contentment regardless of one's circumstances. The best example I can give is, "My family died, I am sick and hurting, and I have nothing, but I have joy and peace because I know God is good." It's basically the spiritual/emotional state Job came to in the end, and it's treated as kind of the spiritual ideal to which Christians should strive. It does not mean that you are happy, feeling good, etc.

Piers · #7 09-24-2005, 02:04 AM

Joy and suffering are tools you psych uses to indirectly control your actions. Joy to encourage you to repeat the experience, suffering to motivate you to get the hell out of whatever you’re in. Of course as the control is indirect it can often get it wrong.

Joy without suffering, might as well ask chocolate without sprouts.

J. Stew · #8 09-24-2005, 02:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Many wonder why God would cause some people to suffer. But is it possible to experience joy without suffering? If there never was any pain, would those things we find pleasurable still be pleasurable? Since both pain and pleasure are mental states (some things that are painful to some are pleasurable to others), if our mind did not know that some things are painful, how could it know that some things are pleasurable. Is it truely possible to always be happy and never sad?

[/ QUOTE ]

You could convince youself to always act happy but that would be an unfulfilling life. Happiness, sadness, pleasure, pain, joy, suffering are all experiences along the way. Joy happens when the aversion to sadness dissipates.

Good Idea · #9 09-24-2005, 10:28 PM

Thanks Jester. That's exactly what I meant.

#10 09-24-2005, 11:32 PM

Suffering is not necessary for joy. Suffering is merely in contrast with joy, which allows one to recognize and more appreciate joy. But reading a book or playing hop-scotch are in contrast to having sex or figuring out a tricky crossword problem. What makes one joyous is the abundance of joyful things in life. Suffering is not necessary for life to be without redundancy or boredom.