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#11
09-23-2005, 02:15 PM
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Re: KK goes up against a nasty board- what\'s my line?
[ QUOTE ]
KJo, with the Jack of Clubs. Not kidding. [/ QUOTE ] In that case make a note and add him to your buddy list. Maybe he hit his club and won this time, but hope that he caps with KJo next time you have KK too... 
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#12
09-23-2005, 02:15 PM
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Re: KK goes up against a nasty board- what\'s my line?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] With it capped PF I do like the idea he's got a pair with a club. [/ QUOTE ] KJo, with the Jack of Clubs. Not kidding. [/ QUOTE ] That is why I struggle to lay this down without a read. I would probably call until the club fell. Raising he has odds. If you are going to raise, the turn is definitely the time to do it. Out of curiosity,how did the rest of the hand play out?
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#13
09-23-2005, 02:55 PM
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Re: KK goes up against a nasty board- what\'s my line?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] With it capped PF I do like the idea he's got a pair with a club. [/ QUOTE ] KJo, with the Jack of Clubs. Not kidding. [/ QUOTE ] That is why I struggle to lay this down without a read. I would probably call until the club fell. Raising he has odds. If you are going to raise, the turn is definitely the time to do it. Out of curiosity,how did the rest of the hand play out? [/ QUOTE ] I raised the flop, he called. Club on the turn, he checks I bet he raises. I know I gotta fold here but instead for some reason I call it down. I think about it and say to myself wow, misplayed on every street. I'd better go tell everyone at 2+2.
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#14
09-23-2005, 03:24 PM
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Re: KK goes up against a nasty board- what\'s my line?
[ QUOTE ]
Club on the turn, he checks I bet he raises. [/ QUOTE ] Like the flop raise a lot. Another advantage of it is that when a horrible card (club) comes on turn you can often get a free card. If he has a club you're dead and can get a showdown in a large pot for one BB. If he has a lower pocket pair without a club you can afford a free card because he only has one out to win. If a 5th club comes then you might very well chop - which is good when he has an A but bad when he doesn't.
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#15
09-23-2005, 04:01 PM
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I don\'t understnad your name
Did you rape someone in 1999?
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#17
09-23-2005, 04:48 PM
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Re: KK goes up against a nasty board- what\'s my line?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Club on the turn, he checks I bet he raises. [/ QUOTE ] Like the flop raise a lot. Another advantage of it is that when a horrible card (club) comes on turn you can often get a free card. If he has a club you're dead and can get a showdown in a large pot for one BB. If he has a lower pocket pair without a club you can afford a free card because he only has one out to win. If a 5th club comes then you might very well chop - which is good when he has an A but bad when he doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] That's interesting- I didn't think of it in those terms. I'd probably take it back if I could though, as most of the time I'm probably beat here, and even if I'm ahead I'm very vulnerable. Against a normal range of hands PS says I have about 40% equity, so it's likely I'm behind, but if a blank non-club falls on the turn my chances improve, as well as any other Ace or a King that's out.. it might not be bad to pop him with a turn raise. If I'm 3-bet and it's a blank I'm 95% beat and might just cut it there.
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#18
09-23-2005, 04:48 PM
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Re: I don\'t understnad your name
[ QUOTE ]
Did you rape someone in 1999? [/ QUOTE ] No, I retired from raping in the late 80s. I was past my prime, Father Time caught up with me.
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#19
09-23-2005, 05:52 PM
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Re: KK goes up against a nasty board- what\'s my line?
[ QUOTE ]
Another advantage of it is that when a horrible card (club) comes on turn you can often get a free card. If he has a club you're dead and can get a showdown in a large pot for one BB. [/ QUOTE ] These two statements don't make sense together. Why the hell would we want a showdown when we are dead? In these spots raising the turn is much better if a safe card hits. Think about it this way. A non club turn gives us a great chance to raise. When we raise the flop we set it up so that we will likely be checked to. If villain is drawing to a club he will call and we don't have the ability to get two in on the turn. When a club does hit, we commit ourselves to betting following up our flop bet w/ a turn bet because we can't just give up. So then we are very vulnerable to the check raise.
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#20
09-23-2005, 06:28 PM
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Re: KK goes up against a nasty board- what\'s my line?
[ QUOTE ]
Why the hell would we want a showdown when we are dead? In these spots raising the turn is much better if a safe card hits. [/ QUOTE ] Waiting for the turn to raise is a mistake. Once hero calls the flop, what hands would he expect villan to bet turn with? Maybe QQ or JJ, but most likely he'll bet if he has an A, trying to protect his hand. [ QUOTE ] Think about it this way. A non club turn gives us a great chance to raise. When we raise the flop we set it up so that we will likely be checked to. If villain is drawing to a club he will call and we don't have the ability to get two in on the turn. When a club does hit, we commit ourselves to betting following up our flop bet w/ a turn bet because we can't just give up. So then we are very vulnerable to the check raise. [/ QUOTE ] Not betting the turn after a flop raise is not giving up. It is just getting you to a showdown as safely and cheaply as possible.
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