What separates a good player from an advanced player?

[phish]

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I play against some 17/15/2.2 type players and notice that they are the toughest opponents (and therefore think maybe I should be playing as they do). However, I can't help but notice these players making, what appears to be, bad plays (i.e. three betting my UTG raise with something like ATs then calling me down when they miss)....but, they seem to consistently win and to wreak havoc for me.


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Not trying to answer your question in full, but I do want to comment on your observation above. What I suspect happens is that these guys (who are still too tight at 17 vpip) are running over you a little. Often they three-bet then are able to bet you off the hand later. The few times you do see show-down, you see how weak their hands were.

My guess is that you are not tenacious enough post-flop. You probably follow a fit or fold strategy which work for some games but are not optimal for the games you play.

I find that the most aggressive guy at a table gains an edge by his aggression alone. (Now he may have other weaknesses that offset it, such as playing too loose.) Sounds like not only are you not the most aggressive at the table, but you are letting the aggressive ones run you over. I'm not suggesting that you ratchet up your aggression if it's not comfortable for you, but I think it helps to explain your less than satisfactory results.

[CardSharpCook]

I love having 17/15 players at my table. It is like they almost get it... but they don't. Hyper-agros that pay off like a slot machine with comparitively weak hands. Be willing to go to more bets with these players. Also be willing to call down with 99 on a 1 or 2 broadway board. I think their problem is that they recognize the hands that are open-raises, but not those hands that are folds instead of 3bets. Just be aware of what that means.

[nykenny]

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I love having 17/15 players at my table. It is like they almost get it... but they don't. Hyper-agros that pay off like a slot machine with comparitively weak hands. Be willing to go to more bets with these players. Also be willing to call down with 99 on a 1 or 2 broadway board. I think their problem is that they recognize the hands that are open-raises, but not those hands that are folds instead of 3bets. Just be aware of what that means.

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i don't like 17/15 by far. i'd much rather play with 54/4.

not every close.

[TaintedRogue]

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You probably follow a fit or fold strategy which work for some games but are not optimal for the games you play.

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How would you define a game where a "fit or fold" approach would work?
Thanks,Ken