KQo wait to raise then fold.

SkiGuyGT · #1 09-21-2005, 02:31 AM

BB is ultra fishy passive 70/0/.46 after 85hands. My table image might be overly aggressive as I was trying to isolate a UTG+2 maniac(90/80/4), and had just done so the previous two hands.

The flop call was because so many cards would hurt my hand I figured I should wait until the turn to raise unless a scary card came, then I'd fold.

Standard fold on turn? I'm thinking BB has me killed.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Entity · #2 09-21-2005, 02:35 AM

You've got to think and look at the pot and the board and the odds you're being offered before taking this line.

You cannot fold TP2K+gutshot in a pot this large on the turn for one bet, especially if your table image may be overaggressive.
Rob

aces_dad · #3 09-21-2005, 02:38 AM

It's quite possible BB has flopped a ragged 2 pair, but could also be overplaying a flush draw or simply TPDK. It's not that standard to 2bet then fold to a 3bet on the turn. If you're really willing to 2bet/fold to a 3bet do it on the flop when the bets are cheaper.

While raising PF with KQo against loose limpers may be fine, in this exact hand doing it to isolate UTG+2 is going to be difficult as there is already 2 other limpers along with him, so this isn't a good application of the isolation 2 bet. A better scenario for attemping the preflop isolation would be to 3bet his 2bet with no other callers between him and you.

#4 09-21-2005, 02:42 AM

You can't fold the turn for one bet. SB could easily have some kind of two pair which you have a lot of outs against. Plus you have an inside str8 draw. On top of that you have the random PP donk factor and he could be doing this with a hand you already beat. So I think I'm going to showdown, and at the very least you'll have an idea of what kind of hands he plays aggressively, and as he is in so many hands that could be useful.

FWIW, I don't raise the turn here. You're not protecting your hand at all and a passive player is showing aggression. You are probably good more than enough to make it worthwhile to see a showdown but I don't want to put extra bets in.

However, this does change if you have reads on the guy, for example some of these donks will bet any pair until they are raised, so if he has been doing that then I like the raise. If he has been super passive I don't like it as much.

#5 09-21-2005, 03:15 AM

On that flop and turn the word fold is not in my vocabulary

jason_t · #6 09-21-2005, 03:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[00:24] jason_t: are you ever tempted to go into micros
[00:25] jason_t: and just post ridiculously wrong advice
[00:25] uw_madtown: lol
[00:25] uw_madtown: [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
[00:25] uw_madtown: that'd be awesome

[/ QUOTE ]

It's nice to see I didn't actually have to do that to get you to almost completely misplay this hand.

Highn · #7 09-21-2005, 04:13 AM

I don't think I could fold on this turn. Even if you are now beat (which really doesn't have to be the case) you have 4 outs to improve to a straight.

pryor15 · #8 09-21-2005, 04:44 AM

you are aware that fishy means bad, right?

that fold is so bad i can't even look at it anymore.

oh, but we must...so, there's ~13BB in there and we've got TP with a damn good kicker against an absolute fish, not to mention that we've got 3 outs to the second nuts, 5 outs to top 2 pair or trips, and we're very likely already ahead and we're folding for 1 bet. (one!) hell, the 13:1 is good enough for the three Jacks that give you a almost certain lock.

the horror

Hojglad · #9 09-21-2005, 05:08 AM

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

The next time playing a hand like this crosses your mind, think of the kitten you are going to kill.

#10 09-21-2005, 06:14 AM

If you're gonna put in a raise, do it on the flop. The BB may be just betting a pair. At least if he 3-bet you'd know where you stand for half price and know whether you need to make two pair or the gutshot to win. Your aggressive image makes this less effective, but it still beats raising the turn for no apparent reason (to the BB).