Applying SSHE to low limit home games? Does it really work?

[adman2006]

SSHE is one of the best books available and I've read it a few times over now cover to cover but can anyone else relate to this problem and give me some sound advice.

Sometimes I find the book isn't working because I'll fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, play a decent starting hand and get smashed by 83o. Then I say too myself "yep, that happens from time to time" so I let it go and keep playing tight poker like I know.

Then I get another decent starting hand and no matter how much I try to protect my hand by raising, someone will come with me to the river (with no pot odds to justify the call) and win the hand or they play really terrible but win the pot somehow.

I'm not talking bad beats, just general played hands in low limit home games where I find that a lot of bad starting hands win time after time after you've all had a few beers and people are playing very loose. Finding it really hard to win.

It sometimes gets to the point where after missing the flop time after time (say 6 played hands out of 30) or losing with 83o I run out of patience and find myself lowering my standards which I hate doing because I know it's wrong.

So my questions are based on a home game $1/2:

1.What skills can you sharpen when playing at this level where it is likely any two cards could win (because everyone is drinking beer and playing really loose)

2. Can you consistently win at these levels of poker with so many of your tactical plays out the window such as bluffing, other people limping in (because it's only $1 or $2 to see a card) with nothing and winning with 2 pair like 83o, and the fact that you can't protect your hand as much as you can in a bigger game like $5/10 or $10/20.

3. In a four hour session how much would you aim for at the end of the night?

I'm no genius by a long shot (hence the Post) but any help would be appreciated from a poker buddy.

thanks in advance,

[Megenoita]

Hi there,

Ironically, SSHE addresses your concerns. It talks about people who complain that players are too loose as if it's a negative thing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Here's the deal. In this situation you described, yes, you are going to win fewer pots, but they will be much larger when you do win. And you will change your strategy some. You should be limping suited connectors and Axs, Kxs, any pocket pair all day long, any position. Play more hands than usual in the above categories because you're trying to hit a big hand. You'll be paid when you do. Don't raise KQo UTG like you can do at tighter tables. Aim to win multiway pots.

In this kind of game, I would expect to be up quite a bit by the end of the night because only a few big pots can set me for my session. If I were you, I would stay out of marginal situations and instead, play drawing hands in the big pots.

This is a gold mine that you are in. It's not in VA at all, is it? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If you want any strategy advice or have any specific questions, feel free to email me at Pointgdc@aol.com (this is a lot harder to check). I do a lot of off-table thinking and adjusting to certain games is really important in poker.

Ed Miller responded to a PM I sent him saying that SSHE applies to, like, EVERY SS game that there is. And he's right.

M

Another thing that is stated in SS about loose games with weak players, is that you should not try to bluff as much don't slowplay as much. Just play straightforward ABC poker. You will not force players out of pots, and you will usually have to show down the best hand, as most will call you all the way down.
From my personal experience get used to taking bad beats ie. hands where you are way ahead like at least 70% to win or better. The better you can learn to take them and not let them effect your game the better off you will be. Because more people in hands chasing to the river= more bad beats

[varoadstter]

Um, yeah. SSHE is talking specifically about the game you are playing. If you have read it then why the questions?

To answer your questions...

1) First of all, yes any two can win, but if you are playing better cards you start with an advantage. If you are playing with position, you start with an advantage. If you know exactly what your opponents betting pattern tells you about their holdings, you have an advantage. All that being said, you can still lose to 83o. That's how it works out sometimes. Funny how we only complain about it when we're on the short end. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] As for what skills to sharpen, I'd suggest really studying odds (as it will give you the information you need about whether or not you should stay in a hand that is a big underdog), putting your opponents on hands, and observing your opponents play from all positions. Do they play anything from any position or do they play less hands early, etc.

2) Yes, consistently you can win. That doesn't mean that you can never lose, particularly if you have leaks in your own game (chasing without odds, etc). Is it really true that you are only losing because your opponents hit miracle cards against you or did you "contribute" to your losses? You only state in your post that you are "playing good cards".

3) Too many variables to say anything definitive other than "a lot".

Reread SSHE again. It sounds like exactly the book to address the game you are playing.

[derick]

You're asking the wrong questions! Just like I did when I started! :-)


[ QUOTE ]


3. In a four hour session how much would you aim for at the end of the night?


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to guess that your standard deviation is about what mine is ... 15 big bets an hour...

Most of the time you'll be within 3 standard deviations.

So.

You might win 1 big bet an hour plus or minus 3x15 big bets.

So after an hour you might be up 46 bets or down 44 big bets ...

Most of the time you'll be between up 50 to down 40 big bets in 4 hours.(yeah I know I'm oversimplifying the idea of standard deviation)

Don't "aim for" an amount, work on learning to play better poker ...





1.What skills can you sharpen?

Before you work on other skills you need to clear your head of this...

When you're down 11 big bets after 4 hours the skill you want to work on is smiling and telling your opponents, "Nice hand" as you think to yourself, "Yeah I'm only down 11 big bets but most of these guys would be down about 20 big bets, high varriance keeps poor players comming back"

Then re read SSH and apply all of the skills Ed mentions.








2. Can you consistently win?

No. Not in the short term.

After any run of 30,000 hours if you win 1 big bet per hour you'll show a win applying SSH

over 4 hours .... gimmie a break ... it's too short a time period.

You *want* to have fish win with 83o That's what makes you money in the long term.
You *want* to have the fish play poorly and win the occasional session. That's what makes you money in the long term.


Hope this helps

PM me if you have any questions

Having read the NLHE section in SS and also having played in a very loose friendly home game experience i have learned how to play very tight. As some other posters said before, NEVER try to bluff a new or very loose player. They will call even with third pair or a very small pp.
This was frusturating me alot and I was doubting my own abilities, then i came to these four points.
1.) Make only the obvious move, do not try to trap or even check raise. The loose players will make calls on anything.

2.) Never bluff, you will most likely have to showdown.

3.) Wait for the hands, they will come and you will get paid off.

Finally, 4.) When facing a super aggresive player do not get drawn into their play and start to tilt. Often you will not have the chips duel them, it is not worth it. Wait for one big hand and then they will steam off the rest of their money.

Good luck, and remember in a loose game play tight and conservative.

[adman2006]

Thanks for everyones reply, it's really appreciated.