fold a set on the flop.

[illegit]

In general folding sets on an uncoordinated flop, whether it's top or bottom set, is something I can't do and unless you're a super-reader, I don't think it's often, if ever, correct. I'll happily lose all my chips in set-over-set confrontations almost every time.

If I remember right in HOH2 he refers to people who tell him they folded bottom set because they 'knew' the other guy had top set as "idiots" (but not to their face).

[hhboy77]

actually, i don't think it's relevant because it's a question of discussion on what the right play is, not whether i won or lost.

i want people to decide for themselves what are his range of holdings and the likelihood of each. the decision is more important; i'll post the answer soon.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
actually, i don't think it's relevant because it's a question of discussion on what the right play is, not whether i won or lost.

i want people to decide for themselves what are his range of holdings and the likelihood of each. the decision is more important; i'll post the answer soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude.

The only way anyone here is folding 77 on that board (or 44 for that matter) is if you had an absolute read on a tell. Like every time he has top set he picks his nose. But only when he has top set. And he told you "I pick my nose when I have top set". And you know he's not lying, because he's hooked up to a lie detector test.

Or maybe if God commanded me to "lay down that set, now". Maybe.

Set overset happens so rarely you have to pay it off when it does. There's really not much discussion here.

[Bill Kolter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
frostbrn. i really like your post. with this line of thinking, you won't be in the small stakes mtt's much longer. one thing i should mention is that my image at the table would probably be pretty solid so i don't think it would make the other player a poker god to deduce that i have an inferior set to jj if that's what he holds. however, i think you're right that raising all in with jj is probably a mistake. since we both know that the rock has an overpair (he rarely made continuation bets after raising pf), he could have called the turn trying to entice an overcall. this would certainly be a vote that he has 44 not jj.

i think i made the right call with 77. what i was wondering is if a better player might have layed this down. the guy next to me called it a "crying call with middle set". i thought that was pretty classless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why aren't you posting what the villain had?

[/ QUOTE ]

He had the jacks. That seems obvious if another player called it a "crying call with middle set."

[frostbrn]

Obviously villain had the jacks of course, but like HH said, whether he won or lost is not the important part of this poist.

Not unlike KK vs. AA preflop, posters in the MTT forum will have won only 1 out of every 36 hands that are posted here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[hhboy77]

for those who don't know already, villain had jj.

i used to agree that folding a set is just silly, but since playing the wpt event, i don't believe that is true.

obviously you can't do it against a fish because you can't ever really know his thinking (because it doesn't make sense). i also say the time to fold a set is on an uncoordinated board where the number of hands he can hold is really limited. plus the stacks have to be big and the blinds small and you have to know your opponent's style pretty well.

all of these things, i believe, would make folding bottom set a clear fold in this situation. don't get me wrong, you won't be seeing me do this almost ever, and certainly not on party's $100 buy-in tournaments or something...

[Exitonly]

No, this is bad, we're all telling you it's bad, dunno why you don't agree.. if he played JJ and 44 the same way here you'd be 50%... but hes WAY more likely to play 44 this way.. you cannot make this fold.

You say you can't do it vs fish.. well i'm pretty sure it's not more straightforwward playing vs pros than random internet donks.

[Hotrod0823]

Easy call - No??

Was he really limping with J's??? Doubt it. My guess would AJx.

And if you were so sure that LP had AA or KK why is that a call from the BB only to second guess yourself when you hit your hand.

[Seadood228]

This is a clear fold with bottom set IMO, and a clear call with middle set. As far as players limping with JJ in EP, it happens very frequently in the deeper events. In this particular hand, I really think villian will have JJ more often than 44 here, but definitely not enough to fold getting 2/1+. I really don't see how anyone would think 44 is good here given the information provided.

So this is why the pros always say they prefer bottom set over middle set.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
for those who don't know already, villain had jj.

[/ QUOTE ]

wah. I still call. like, really fast.