Taking odds at Craps - Page 6

Easy E · #51 09-15-2005, 10:16 AM

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Easy E · #52 09-15-2005, 10:31 AM

I have to go with the madman here.

There are two bets- the initial one (pass line), with the -EV and the second one (odds) that is break even.
Since you can't make an odds bet without the pass line bet going up first, it is a separate and dependent bet. Why would the casino let you take it down if they had the edge?

Your expected loss is the amount on the first bet, not the second. Just because you are 'disguising' the cost of the bet by adding greater and greater odds doesn't change the expected return.

Whatever semantics or words that one wants to argue about the overall "wager" amount, the true test is this- who is the casino giving more comps to?

A) $10 pass line better with $90 odds

B) $20 pass line better not taking odds

Odds are allowed so that the casino can win the bankroll race.

That being said, it is much better to be Bettor A (if you have the bankroll to risk $100 a spot on a hand of craps), so that short-term luck can enable you to hope win some sessions.

Abagadro · #53 09-15-2005, 01:17 PM

This sounds like interesting stuff, but I have no clue what most of those terms mean. Can you elaborate?

Abagadro · #54 09-15-2005, 01:26 PM

This discussion has been interesting and made me think about craps in a different way than before so good job guys (on both sides of the fence).

[ QUOTE ]
who is the casino giving more comps to?

A) $10 pass line better with $90 odds

B) $20 pass line better not taking odds

[/ QUOTE ]

This brings up a question I have for those in the know: What is the best way to maximize crap comps?

I'm a pretty conservative player who basically plays minimum pass line/come bets and between 3-10x odds depending on my mood. I play at a small border-town casino that doesn't even have a pit guy sitting at the table, just a floor man who comes over when there is a buy-in to take the player's card info and write down god knows what on the table clip board. When I first buy in I usually buy in for more than I plan to really put in action and then make a larger pass-line bet while the floor is standing there, then back it down when they leave. I have no idea if either of these actually does anything, but was wondering if anyone had other suggestions for bumping up craps comps without digging a deep EV hole.

SheetWise · #55 09-15-2005, 02:41 PM

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When I first buy in I usually buy in for more than I plan to really put in action and then make a larger pass-line bet while the floor is standing there, then back it down when they leave.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
No boxman? Hell, you can make them believe in miracles. Consider having 1500-2000 placed outside, and simply call them off/working depending on where the floor is -- throw the dealers a hop bet for $1 every 2-3 minutes, let them pick the roll ($30-40 hr) -- they'll take care of the button for you, and even when the floor looks in the mirror they'll see your BIG action (but not the off button).

Your value is when the floor talks to the dealer - the dealer can say "They were usually OFF", or he can say "He occasionally called them OFF". The $40-60 an hour is worth the later call.

Easy E · #56 09-15-2005, 10:50 PM

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Abagadro · #57 09-18-2005, 06:23 PM

There is a lot I don't know about a lot of things. If asking questions when I don't understand something makes me a sucker, at least I'm a tootsie-pop with a delicious center.

1-2-3, CRUNCH! Three!

SheetWise · #58 09-18-2005, 07:16 PM

I'm sorry I didn't reply -- I though you were pulling my chain. I was just having some fun with the "dice setters" -- it didn't mean anything. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Toonces · #59 09-20-2005, 02:38 PM

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Betting $100 on the Pass line has a fixed mathematical expectation.

Adding on top of that $X on the Odds bet does not change the expectation on the Pass line, it merely changes the expectation of the total money wagered - which is (IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE!) more than what you originally had on the Pass line - and which gives the gambler the illusion that he somehow "lowered the HA" on 'im.

Here's the drill :
1. Do not play Craps, it's a negative-EV game.
2. If you have to play Craps, bet as little as possible.
3. And if you will eventually bet, then bet as bigger a portion of your bet on the zero-expectation bet of Odds and leave as little as possible for the negative-expectation bet of the Pass line. In other words, instead of betting $100 on Pass, bet $10 on Pass -- and pocket the $90 or take the Odds bet, same thing.

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Actually, there is a pretty important difference for the typical gambler between betting $10 on the Pass line and $90 on odds vs. betting $10 on the pass line and putting $90 in your pocket.

Take the following example:
You have $1000. Your goal is to play for 1 hour and come out a winner. Which is the best way to play if you want to finish as a winner?

Answer: Play $90 odds.

The point is clearly if the entertainment, excitement, and yes, variance of craps is worth paying a 14 cent house edge, than clearly making an additional bet at zero house edge is a bargain to you.

Easy E · #60 09-22-2005, 10:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There is a lot I don't know about a lot of things. If asking questions when I don't understand something makes me a sucker, at least I'm a tootsie-pop with a delicious center.

1-2-3, CRUNCH! Three!

[/ QUOTE ]

Most clubs only employ stoppers on the swing and graveyard shifts -- since their power is diminished during daylight hours, and current technologies cannot completely block UV waves

If that doesn't give it away, then either I'm the sucker here or you missed it completely