Fold this set?

[Havok]

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Only yesterday have i replied to posts on hands (mainly because i used to only browse the general forum, i really like these two NL+PL forums, really are good) and some agree with me and some dont.

Here i really am surprised people suggest flat calling.

You have position yet you are not going to use it? thats one of the main benefits of position is you do not have to repeatedly call hands hoping your hand is the better, you can instead gain control of the hand by raising and judge the opponents reaction by what he then does on the next street or if he reraises. plus your opponent can then put you on a stronger hand than you actually do so he plays his hands less aggressively if he doesnt have a great hand, whereas you therefore know if he is then showing a lot of strength back you know he must have a great hand, as why would he be showing a lot of strength when he sees your showing a lot of strength - why? - becuase he has a great hand. and by just flat calling he could fire out a big bet on the river and you have no idea what hands he could have, no idea.


One of the worst calls in poker imo is a turn call only to fold to a larger river bet. it simply a terrible turn call. and its what would happen in this situation.
you are solely playing the strength of your cards, with no attempt to work out what your opponents have.

to those who think calling is the best decision, if he then bets $70 on the river, you still call thar river bet? if you do and
he flips over the flush, what do you think? 'i played that well!' no you should think 'if only i min raised the turn he would either of pushed on the turn in which case i fold or he checks on the river either putting me on a higher flush or if he thinks his hand was good he may of checked to induce a bet - i annoy him by checking as well, or he stil thinks his flush is good and bets out $150, which i can easily fold, as he has seen me show great strength by raising yet he still fires out a big bet' 'if only i min raised i would of saved myself facing a river bet vs an opponent i have failed to show any strength against and so i cannot gauge any reaction from him to me showing strength, and so i have no idea if he has top pair, two pair or a flush'


to those who say you dont gain information by min raising - you do. you then can the information of whether he has you beat by whether he pushes on the turn or bets big on the river. he may check to induce a bet on the river.

and to those who may be thinking 'wait a minute, what do i do if he checks on the river, i may have him beat yet im just checking as well' that fine, as there is no great value in betting on the river - he has seen you show strength by min raising the turn so your only likely getting called by a flush unless he is a bad player and he calls you with his ace.

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This is a great ananlysis of the situation. Often times aggressor is going to have two pair or 4 to the flush and is semi-bluffing. Plus lest we not forget if the board pairs your going to make a lot of money from the guy holding the flush. I think this is line is optimal, but I agree with the other posters that calling is okay also. If you see him check the river, check also. He's either given up on his steal if another flush card doesn't come, or is trying to induce a bluff from you when he does have it. Bet, of course if you fill up. More times than not, you will be ahead in this situation. So it's EV+ to not fold here.