The Good, The Bad....The Ugly? (9/16)

Harv72b · #1 09-17-2005, 04:41 AM

Had a really weird day today. My Party bankroll has been hovering right around the 300 BB mark for 5/10, but I've resisting the urge to jump back into that game up til now. But after going on an insane run on the 2/4 tables this afternoon (+61 BBs in 500 hands), I hopped onto a 5/10 table to start my night session. That did not go well at all, as I dumped about 15 BBs there in 81 hands before calling it quits. Then after a break to cool down, I found the sweetest 3/6 table evah and collected about 42 BBs in 44 hands before it started to break up. But you don't care about that. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

The deal...two hands. One, I think I played well. The other, I think I did not play well. I put it upon you all to tell me how I should've played them, because to be totally honest, most of the time I don't really know. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Hand 1

Reads: About 15 hands into my 3/6 session, but the reads are already firming up. MP2 is a little loose and none to good postflop. CO looks like a TAG. Button appears to have achieved nirvana in LAGdom. I'm stuck for 8 BBs already after a couple big aces whiffed & pocket queens lost to A3o, so my table image ain't so hot.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO raises, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO folds, Button calls, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, Button calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls, Button folds.

River: (17.16 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 25.16 BB
Main Pot: 25.16 BB, between Hero and MP2.

__________________________________________________ _________

Hand 2

Reads: My first hand at the table; no reads.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (9.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB
Main Pot: 12.20 BB, between UTG+1, Hero and UTG.

meep_42 · #2 09-17-2005, 04:51 AM

Hand 1: I raise the flop on the drawy board, you may not get the chance on the turn and you have the whole field trapped. Other than that, yes. If he rivered his 2-outer, good for him.

Hand 2: PF is thin, but I make this call a lot. I'd like to see another cold-caller in there, but that's life. Flop bet is terrible. Turn donkbet is less terrible, but still bad, imo. At least you got the river right.

-d

udontknowmickey · #3 09-17-2005, 05:00 AM

Hand 1) If button is such a lag, why not bet out and hope CO or button raises?

Having checked, why didn't you check raise the flop?

You have top set against what looks like a flush draw and maybe some weak gutshots or pairs. You're not going to get a fd out, nor do you really care about the gutshots. Right? Or maybe i'm just horribly backwards.

Hand 2)

I have never played 5/10 so I'm not qualified to say anything here, but is the bet a semibluff? I think I would checkraise for two reasons 1) if PFR has pp under ace, he might fold to your show of strength. 2) even if PFR has an ace, there is a possibility that UTG+1 will call (which, considering he CC pf, is pretty good) and then you're getting your 2:1 odds on a flush draw.

Is trying for a checkraise on the turn with your flop line too fancy?

toss · #4 09-17-2005, 09:26 AM

First hand I'd have gone crazy on the flop.

Second hand PF call seems pretty marginal and flop bet seems pretty bad. The line you took I'd have gone for a CR on the turn.

Carmine · #5 09-17-2005, 09:52 AM

Harv, if there is a reason why you didn't C/R the flop in Hand #1 I'll listen. Maybe you were hoping CO had a big pair which he would raise on the turn. No because an overpair would then 3-bet the flop, so that can't be it. Maybe you were waiting for a non- [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] turn. I'm not sure what you were thinking. T&R look good though.

Hand #2- Others have said PF is marginal. I think it is terrible. Flop is another bad line IMO. Why bet into a PF raiser who you know is gonna raise and push out (most likely)your small equity edge in the third player. I think you know this though.

Harv72b · #6 09-17-2005, 01:46 PM

Okay, the flop play in Hand 1: I almost included a note in the original post, but I left it out because I don't want to influence anyone's opinions right off the bat.

I initially checked intending to raise the expected autobet from CO. When the bet instead came from directly on my left, and nobody raised it (or folded), I rethought things & decided to wait for the turn to check/raise. There were a couple reasons: first of all, my position relative the bettor set me up perfectly to trap the field for an extra BB on the turn, rather than a SB on the flop. I was also thinking of the drawy nature of the board, and a safe turn card would've made the raise a lot easier for me to make. Finally, on this table & with the range that MP2 & Button have both shown, it's very possible that one of them is holding 87 for the flopped straight. Deception entered into the equation a bit, too, but CO was likely the only one who would even be thinking about what I might have vs. what he sees in his own hand.

I'd normally just check/raise the flop.

Harv72b · #7 09-18-2005, 02:27 AM

Not too much commentary this time, but I guess when you so obviously butcher a hand as I did in Hand 2, there ain't much to say about it. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] It would have been much better to just check/raise the flop there. As it turned out, UTG had AQ & UTG+1 was holding AK (no diamond).

The preflop call....we all know that I defend my blinds a little too often, and I am working on that leak. However, when I've just posted in the BB for my first hand at the table, I will defend (for 1 more bet) with just about anything even remotely playable. I believe, right or wrong, that the metagame aspects of doing this outweigh the Sklansky bucks that I'm typically "losing" by defending with weak hands--I want the table to know right off the bat that they can't just raise me off my blind on a whim. If I happen to make it to showdown with one of these hands, even better, as they're now apt to think of me as being fairly loose, which will pay off in the future when I get called down by weak hands which would fold in a heartbeat vs. someone they perceived as tight & straightforward.

I already explained my reasoning for just calling the flop in Hand 1...maybe better to put in the extra bet there, maybe not. Leading with the intention of 3-betting a raise from CO would also be a line worth considering.

I do, however, think that too many people don't change up their game often enough. I know that the prevailing wisdom on here is that most small stakes opponents aren't sophisticated enough to even notice, and while that may be true on many tables, it isn't always true. For those who aspire to one day be playing at higher stakes, this is a skill that you have to learn sooner or later. While I do generally just fastplay any monster that I hit (and balance that out by trying to ram an UI big ace down someone's throat from time to time), I also appreciate the value of changing gears from time to time--playing a flopped monster like a draw, a draw like a flopped monster, or whatever. While I didn't intend to slowplay Hand 1 when I checked the flop, I wasn't averse to changing up the game plan on the fly.

It (obviously) worked like a charm this time, as MP2 apparently thought I just had a 6. He showed A6o, and MHIG.

bottomset · #8 09-18-2005, 03:44 AM

I like a flop donkbet in hand1

hand2, I really don't like this flop bet

shant · #9 09-18-2005, 03:45 AM

Checkraiso el turno in hand numero dos.