3betting with 77

3 bet pre-flop is ok.

in this hand, if you call the turn, you should call the river. calling the turn is ok against a lag, otherwise you should fold the turn. since you have no information other than that this guy will cap the third hand he's seen, i don't think its awful to guess he is a lag. thus, call the river.

[TheHammer24]

I don't disagree with the way you played. Postflop on this board you have a ton of options, none of which is much better than the other.

I'm inclined to raise the flop, but villian capped pf, so he'd 3-bet a lot of hands. Calling down is find IMO, but raising the flop is what I, personally, would do

[sfer]

Kailia, it's good to see you posting here again. I think the fact that the villain is unknown makes the hero showdown committed when he calls the turn, basically to any river card. I think I probably do this too much but I want to know villain's capping range.

[Argus]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
I'm a little suprised that everybody is against the preflop three bet. Yes, it is a bit unorthadox, but we're not required to play from a book, and believe it or not, it isn't much of a mistake if at all to do so here.

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Depending on the limit, most unknowns don't raise preflop enough, meaning 77 is a dog against their range. People's UTG raising standards are usually tighter still; I read a thread once where Schneids posited that it's about half their overall PFR%. Taking both of these into account 3-betting 77 can be pretty bad.

Remember the gap concept: you don't want to get into a hand with a holding that is only a coinflip against the PFR's range. You're getting only slightly better than 1:1 on your money by 3-betting and I don't see a significant expectation of making money postflop. In fact, I think you're more likely to lose money as villain will release his unimproved high card hards, but you're inclined to go to showdown in case he continues with them.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
In some situations it would be correct to call the turn and fold the river. Yes, that sounds somewhat strange, but against certain players you can almost always fold this river. Even if you couldn't, you could still call down, which isn't significantly worse (if at all) then the free showdown play.

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I like your argument against the free showdown play, but I don't think folding the river is correct here. Decide on the flop whether or not to take this to showdown. If you decide to take it to showdown then call a river bet, because many players will bet AK one last time for value. They might be hoping to fold another AK, but folding your 77 is a coup.

The main problem I have with your arguments is that they necessitate a particular sort of opponent and are plays that should only be made with a specific read. This villain is unknown, and while he might fit the criteria chances are he doesn't and there's no way of knowing without playing more hands with him.

[pauliewalnuts]

One poster mentioned knowing the limit might help. It was party 3/6 FWIW. Lately I've started 3betting a lone raiser in position with 77 and 88 sometimes. Maybe I shouldnt try this on an unknown, as a few posters mentioned. Also, as Sfer mentioned, since villian was unknown, I was curious to see what his capping standards were.

Thanks for the replies.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on the limit, most unknowns don't raise preflop enough, meaning 77 is a dog against their range. People's UTG raising standards are usually tighter still; I read a thread once where Schneids posited that it's about half their overall PFR%. Taking both of these into account 3-betting 77 can be pretty bad.

Remember the gap concept: you don't want to get into a hand with a holding that is only a coinflip against the PFR's range. You're getting only slightly better than 1:1 on your money by 3-betting and I don't see a significant expectation of making money postflop. In fact, I think you're more likely to lose money as villain will release his unimproved high card hards, but you're inclined to go to showdown in case he continues with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are thinking much too narrowly about this.

1. You have position.
2. When you flop a monster your hand is disguised, not the villain's.
3. On some boards it is obviously that you have been outflopped. Sometimes those boards will convince the villain that he has been outflopped and he will fold JJ for a single bet.
4. You have position.
5. You can more easily induce a FToP mistake from AK/AQ/whatever if he folds the turn unimproved.
6. You have position.

You are giving me hot/cold arguments for folding. 3-betting medium pairs is fine in the right context, not unambigiously bad as you're suggesting.