does this river play ever work?

joseki · #1 09-13-2005, 05:10 PM

SB has good stats (27/17/2.3) and seems like a strong player.

What do you think about raising the flop or turn?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

bank · #2 09-13-2005, 05:12 PM

No. River is spewing. Call or fold here. I fold.

gildwulf · #3 09-13-2005, 05:21 PM

Your goal here should be to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. This move is definitely FPS.

Let's take a look at his possible hands. For a solid TAG 3-betting you are looking at AA-77, KJo, KQo, AKo, AKs, AQs, AQo, AJs, AJo, QJo, QJs, maybe ATs and QTs. Since you haven't really raised or done anything to define his hand (I really think you should have raised the flop) we are looking at these hands. The only hands you are going to get to fold on the river for one bet (1 in that big a pot) are hands that are bluffing. You're not going to get paid off by these hands and these are the hands you want to call. The hands that are calling your river raise (and not 3-betting) are pocket pairs that have you beat and probably any jack. The hands that will raise are any ace and maybe a jack.

So this 'river play' you are talking about gets worse hands to fold and then makes you pay an extra bet if you want to see the river. Worst. Play. Ever.

NLSoldier · #4 09-13-2005, 05:24 PM

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No. River is spewing. Call or fold here. I fold.

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calling with ten high is usually not a good idea.

gamblore99 · #5 09-13-2005, 05:53 PM

I can't see anything besides folding this river. the pot is a decent size, but your almost never good. Like someone said, a raise will just fold worser hands.

bank · #6 09-13-2005, 05:57 PM

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No. River is spewing. Call or fold here. I fold.

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calling with ten high is usually not a good idea.

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Villian could have 22-66. 88-99

joseki · #7 09-13-2005, 05:59 PM

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Your goal here should be to get to showdown as cheaply as possible...(I really think you should have raised the flop)

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Which is it?

I don't think raising the flop would do much to define his hand. I expect him to 3-bet pocket pairs and any hand w/ an A.

I thought about raising the turn, but low/mid pocket pairs fold and JJ-AA/Ax likely 3-bets, right? So, I'm not totally convinced I'm behind and my raise only folds worse hands that might fire again on the river, so I call.

When he bet the river I was ready to fold, but after thinking for a second, I talked myself into the possibility that he'd throw in a desperation bet w/ 55-99 and that there was a decent chance he'd fold QQ or KK to a raise.

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Worst. Play. Ever.

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Thanks for your brutal honesty.