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#1
09-13-2005, 02:16 AM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
[ QUOTE ]
do you have to be a bible scholar or a master theologian to feed the hungry, take care of the sick and poor, or comfort the hurting people in this world? [/ QUOTE ] Not at all. But you do have to be able to see the logical implications that certain beliefs have in regards to being successful in persuading non-believers to accept the gospel. You really need to reread my original and following posts. Since I know you believe that God expects you to share the faith, then you should also believe that He expects you to try to do it in a way that has the greatest chances for getting non-believers to accept it. Same as maximizing your EV in poker. 
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#2
09-13-2005, 03:17 PM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
[ QUOTE ]
Not at all. But you do have to be able to see the logical implications that certain beliefs have in regards to being successful in persuading non-believers to accept the gospel. [/ QUOTE ] God's things, spiritual things, are transmitted from spirit to spirit. Man is a three-fold being: body, soul, and spirit. When God imparts something to us, He imparts it into our spirits. When we receive that and impart it to others we impart it to their spirits. The logical mind is part of a man's soul. The unregenerate man has only his soul to guide him. His carnal, selfish, fleshly soul has had years and years to pull him away from the things of God and set him on paths of folly. You don't try to convince someone from mind to mind. The gospel is not to be accepted and received logically. The currency of every cult from the JW's to the Moonies to the RCC is a twisting of logic to enprison its adherents, a system of thought that builds upon itself brick by brick so that the high walls no longer let Light in, leaving man in a cave of darkness.
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#3
09-13-2005, 04:29 PM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
[ QUOTE ]
The currency of every cult from the JW's to the Moonies to the RCC is a twisting of logic to enprison its adherents, a system of thought that builds upon itself brick by brick so that the high walls no longer let Light in, leaving man in a cave of darkness. [/ QUOTE ] This is an excellent point. Many if not all heresies are the result of applying "logic" to some doctrine of Scripture. I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that the logic of a finite, imperfect creature is likely to be finite and imperfect. It's only logical to believe that. Our sight isn't perfect. Our hearing isn't perfect. Our emotions aren't perfect. Our strength isn't perfect. Our will isn't perfect. But our logic is? To deny the perfection of humanity's ability to reason isn't to deny the ultimate validty of perfect reason (which belongs to God) or the usefulness of reason so far as we are able any more than to deny we can see perfectly is to deny the sight we do have is useful and accurate as far as it goes. Because we can't reason it all out perfectly God communicates to us. So we naturally then take His communication and subject it to the test of human reason. Why does He put up with us?
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#4
09-15-2005, 03:19 AM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The currency of every cult from the JW's to the Moonies to the RCC is a twisting of logic to enprison its adherents, a system of thought that builds upon itself brick by brick so that the high walls no longer let Light in, leaving man in a cave of darkness. [/ QUOTE ] This is an excellent point. Many if not all heresies are the result of applying "logic" to some doctrine of Scripture. I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that the logic of a finite, imperfect creature is likely to be finite and imperfect. It's only logical to believe that. Our sight isn't perfect. Our hearing isn't perfect. Our emotions aren't perfect. Our strength isn't perfect. Our will isn't perfect. But our logic is? To deny the perfection of humanity's ability to reason isn't to deny the ultimate validty of perfect reason (which belongs to God) or the usefulness of reason so far as we are able any more than to deny we can see perfectly is to deny the sight we do have is useful and accurate as far as it goes. Because we can't reason it all out perfectly God communicates to us. So we naturally then take His communication and subject it to the test of human reason. Why does He put up with us? [/ QUOTE ] He was talking in his post about "twisted" logic, which isn't true logic. And as I said before, logic is a branch of mathematics and knowledge. And it isn't just human logic, but LOGIC. Just like mathematics in general. God made mathematics and logic, and if you hold a set of beliefs that is logically contradictory to itself in some ways, then that indicates those beliefs to be less than 100% true, and thus not fully reflective of God's truth. And heresies have not sprung from misapplied logic, but from a literalist out-of-context interpretation of various passages in scripture, which shows not only the fallacy of such methods of interpretation, but the consequences of not having an authoritative interpreter. The height of such illogic is what I said in another post about maintaining that the reformation changed catholic doctrine which was in error, but that the new doctrines aren't 100% correct either, and that you expect non-believers to buy that new set of doctrines.
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#6
09-15-2005, 03:37 AM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
I can't begin to say how pathetic it is if you maintain that you can hold a set of beliefs in which some are logically contradictory of each other, but still maintain that you are correct in holding those beliefs. How hard is it for you to understand that this doesn't most likely mean that true doctrine is only "apparently" illogical because human reasoning is incapable of undertanding it fully, but rather that many of your particular interpretations of scripture are just wrong?
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#7
09-15-2005, 03:44 AM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
[ QUOTE ]
I can't begin to say how pathetic it is if you maintain that you can hold a set of beliefs in which some are logically contradictory of each other, but still maintain that you are correct in holding those beliefs [/ QUOTE ] I never said this. [ QUOTE ] but rather that many of your particular interpretations of scripture are just wrong [/ QUOTE ] What you meant to say is you don't understand them according to your logic.
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#8
09-15-2005, 10:23 PM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
"I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that the logic of a finite, imperfect creature is likely to be finite and imperfect. It's only logical to believe that. Our sight isn't perfect. Our hearing isn't perfect. Our emotions aren't perfect. Our strength isn't perfect. Our will isn't perfect. But our logic is?"
Is our arithmetic?
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#9
09-15-2005, 10:35 PM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
[ QUOTE ]
Is our arithmetic? [/ QUOTE ] Probably. I sometimes assume people understand without infinite detailing, sometimes I shouldn't do so. I use the word logic loosely to mean the soundness of an argument. Obviously, an argument can be perfectly logical and completely unsound. When I question human logic or reason I'm talking about the soundness of the argument, not necessarily the formal logical process. You don't really believe all arguments are sound because they are logically correct, do you?
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#10
09-15-2005, 10:54 PM
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Re: What You Protestants Don\'t Seem to Get
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You don't really believe all arguments are sound because they are logically correct, do you? [/ QUOTE ] They can only not be so if they proceed from faulty axioms. But NO argument can be sound if its conclusions are logically fallaceous.
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