Fearing the ghost -- 88 on K53KK board

marand · #1 09-12-2005, 02:23 PM

Both opponents are very loose and somewhat passive. They are the reason I am playing at this table. (About 60/5 preflop)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Thoughts?

marand · #2 09-12-2005, 02:25 PM

Checking the turn in this situation is too weak right? Sure one of them could have a K and not raise it since they are passive. But they could also call the flop with a 5 or a 3, A-high or a smaller pocket pair.

When nobody raises on the turn I think my hand is most likely good. I would probably have folded to a turn ch/r against these guys. (Without a second thought if the action had gone: bet call raise.)

On the river SB wakes up and bets and BB calls again. I think I am almost always ahead of BB at this point, but SB could have the last K. (Perhaps he didn't want to raise the turn since that would scare away the BB and he is afraid to go for a check/raise on the river for the same reason and I might check behind also.) But on the other hand he could have a 5, 3 or a pocket pair and now think that his hand is good since there is only 1 king left in the deck and I am not very likely to have it.

How is the river call? Is it standard or really really weak? Should this be an easy raise on the river?
If I raise the river and SB now 3-bets and BB folds do you call or fold? (Do you even have to know the answer to this question before you decide to raise the river?)

I think I am seeing ghosts and should have raised this river. I think I am ahead more often than not and will often get called by both players. I will probably only get 3-bet by a K or an idiot, but I don't know if I should call a 3-bet or not.

Thoughts?

steaknshake925 · #3 09-12-2005, 02:30 PM

i play it the same way. on the river i can see the reason for raising but in autopilot i just call. if you do raise i think it will be hard to fold to a 3bet. i wonder if this is an autoraise for anyone?

w_alloy · #4 09-12-2005, 02:32 PM

I hate giving these types of answers, but I think it depends on how passive the opponent is. If he is really passive I just call, and just somewhat passive or normal I raise. This is likely a 2/1 scenarioo, where you gain 1 when ahead and lose 2 whe behind. BB is unlikely to overcall your raise and both players may even fold. But the odds they have you beat are slim enough that I still raise this (again unless he is very passive).

Edit: I call a 3 bet unless I have a read that he doesnt make moves, which is likely given the opponents nature.

bank · #5 09-12-2005, 02:35 PM

I raise this every time...calling a 3 bet too.

Lmn55d · #6 09-12-2005, 02:42 PM

raise river, you're looking at a 5 or 3 almost all the time here and the other guy will probably call with his ace high or pair too.

obsidian · #7 09-12-2005, 02:43 PM

The fact that you are almost guaranteed to have the BB beat makes this an easy river raise.

krishanleong · #8 09-12-2005, 02:56 PM

Raise-X is more profitable than call here.

Krishan