AA vs possible KK - Page 2

#11 09-12-2005, 01:34 PM

AK I might accept, but why would QQ bet there? To make JJ call?

So the "right" way to play it would have been to bet about pot on the flop. If called, what then? If raised? Would be extremely hard to know wheter he has AK or KK no matter what I do I feel.

Sifmole · #12 09-12-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What hand would Villain 1. call the preflopraise 2. bet out on the river with exept KK? I think I got away cheap by folding, I cant see him bluffing there, since for all he knows, I might very well have KK myself there.
I tend to get nervous when I reraise big preflop and gets called and there is a king on the board, therefore I tried to keep the pot small. The turnbet was a valuebet though, didnt think he would check KK twice, but cant really see him calling that bet and then betting out on the river with anything but KK...comments?

Edit: I have 100$ and villain has me covered.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em (NL$100) (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $3.00, 1 folds, MP1 calls $3.00, 2 folds, Hero raises to $15.00, 3 folds, UTG calls $12.00, 1 folds.

Flop: ($34.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($34.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $15.00, UTG calls $15.00.

River: ($64.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets $30.00, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $94.50.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, what was your plan and thinking with your checks and bets? It doesn't seem like you had a post-flop plan; the entire plan seems like "1) raise AA PF, 2) ..., 3) Profit!".

It really looks like you were attempting to slowplay your aces post-flop, but your comments indicate otherwise. The main issue in this hand is that you slow(weak?) played yourself into a corner.

Flop: He raised 3xBB, so lets figure him to be normal ( since you gave no reads ). Range, AA,KK,QQ,AKs,AKo and add less likely JJ,TT,AQs. Then he called your re-raise -- I think anything he raised w/ is calling this; but that is really what you want.

Flop: It is rainbow, and not a likely straight flop. The only hand you are legitimately concerned about having called and hit this flop is KK -- and w/ his PF raise he could very well have it; but you make no effort to find out -- and in the process show weakness and fear of the K. You opponent may well read from this that you re-raised QQ down to TT in a "move" but you could have KK or AA and be slowplaying.

Turn: Now a 2nd flush comes and now 77 is also an OESD. And now, you bet -- again showing weakness with a less than 1/2 pot bet. Villian is now getting 49 / 15 or 3.3 to 1. Also, your play now screams one of two things: slow played KK, AA, AK or bluff. If I am villain holding Ax clubs or a pair of sevens I think I might have a good chance to stack here. If I am aggressive ( and maybe a little wild ) I might figure I can take this with any two on a flush river or possibly regardless of what comes. See the damage your slow(weak?) play did?

River: The club comes, and now he bets a touch under 1/2 pot. Exactly the bet I would make if I had the flush or KK. I would probably bet larger if I wanted to represent it -- although I usually wouldn't take the "bluff" line presented here, unless watching you for a while indicated that I could. What do you do? Hell, who knows! We have no idea what our opponent has. Personally, I think you have to call here -- but only because of the weak line you took. If you don't call you really should leave the table and go find a new one because you are going to be a target from there on out.

A stronger line on the flop eliminates all this uncertainty, pot bet it. If you chose to slowplay, then pot it on the turn when things get dangerous. If you are AA vs KK and he hit that K -- you are supposed to lose a bit, its the way the game works.

MINETZ · #13 09-12-2005, 01:44 PM

pot flop, looks like u gave him a free RR flush, but i pay him off here cuz it could just be ak too because of the amount of weakness u showed.

GrunchCan · #14 09-12-2005, 01:46 PM

I really don't see how you can eliminate TT from his range, given the (lack of) action on the flop & turn.

mudbuddha · #15 09-12-2005, 01:48 PM

how do you put someone on KK...
how do you fold 1/2 pot size bet???????? with AA
oh boy.. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

if he has a set or somethin like that..good for him.. but bet your hand until theres clear reason..

come on!! AGGRO!!! although my friend once had a ful house 10's over 4's and almost folded when a A came on the river thinking the guy had aces..

hahah i almost pissed my pants

#16 09-12-2005, 01:51 PM

Very good analysis, ty so much! I really played it badly, I can see it now. AS you say, I really didnt have a well thought out plan postflop, I only though of keeping the pot small and getting it to a showdown cheap (which makes it kind of stupid to bet the turn the way I did)..

Brian B · #17 09-12-2005, 01:52 PM

Given the weakness you showed post flop I would have made this river bet with any 2 cards. Where can I find players like you who routinely fold AA on the river to a 1/2 pot bet after slow playing?

mudbuddha · #18 09-12-2005, 01:57 PM

it doesnt matter how you played it to the river..
with a 1/2 pot size bet..
do you seriously think that you dont even have a 1/3 shot to win this hand with pair aces?

#19 09-12-2005, 02:03 PM

Can't argue, I played it horribly and should have called given the stupid line I took. I guess I was just scared of from losing a set vs set confrontation two hands before in whichi villain took exactly that line, which is no excuse for my horrible play, but an explanation.

Overall, I played it like a total fish but thanks to the comments I have learned and will definitely not make that mistake again.

mudbuddha · #20 09-12-2005, 02:07 PM

its cool, ive slowplayed aces and had somoene flop 2 pair (who was my friend) and paid him off a good sum.
haha

more of a donk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]