Normal Frequency of Losing

[David Steele]

It is not required to break down a session into hourly results, you can estimate your hourly SD given a bunch of sessions with length in hours. Mason has a estimation formula in his books.

D.

[tiger1]

I've had runs where I have 10 or more winning sessions (some are small or break even wins, some are nice size wins) in a row and then experience the "running bad" syndrome where I just get crummy cards or have a run of bad luck. Then I give back all my win $. It has wrecked my hourly rate. I try to limit my loss, or leave quickly if the cards seem to be bad.

The first thing I notice when I sit down at a table is if the good players are winning and the fish are losing. Usually, if the poorly skilled players are winning (getting lucky, sucking out) or screwing up the game somehow I exit quickly.

I try to play my best at all times and be patient. If I'm not feeling patient that day or the cards are bad and I'm not catching I find it best to just leave. Set a win and loss limit for yourself.

For example if you win 1 out of 3 times you should never lose more than you can win in a single session.

[Dwayne]

Tiger1,
How often does you long span of getting crummy cards occure and how long does this span last? My occurences of this are about one in three and crummy cards seem to just keep coming. Only rarly have I been able to 'turn it around' during such a session.

I think you advice of leaving a bad game after a certain period of time and not losing more than you can win on any given session is good. I will remember that.

[Terry]

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Usually, if the poorly skilled players are winning (getting lucky, sucking out) or screwing up the game somehow I exit quickly.

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Not me. I want to play in a game where the poor players have lots of chips.

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If I'm not feeling patient that day or the cards are bad and I'm not catching I find it best to just leave.

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If you're not feeling patient then leaving is a good thing. When you're not catching cards, how do you know you aren't about to start catching cards?

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Set a win and loss limit for yourself

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Loss limits may have some value in some situations, but setting a limit on how much you will win is silly except in home game situations where you want to insure being invited back.

[tiger1]

Sometimes it can last up to 3 or more sessions and is very frustrating. At one point in my poker career I had an amazing run of 30 winning sessions in a row. I would stay there until I won no matter how long it took. It seemed to work for a while and I was winning a ton of money, but then it went bad. And boy did it go bad. I ended up losing about $4K one day before I gave up and went home.

Then, I would go on another run of about 10 winning session to recover and lose all my winnings again in 1 or 2 horrendous sessions. Very frustrating!

It taught me a lesson to limit my losses. It just wasn't healthy to be sitting at the poker table so long not playing my best. All good things must come to an end and so did my long win streaks.

I used to be able to "turn it around" or all of a sudden the cards would go my way. But, sometimes it just doesn't turn around even if you are playing superb poker. No matter what you do you just can't win.

I don't know if you want to limit your win. But for myself I don't like giving anything back. I like limiting my losses if it seems like you hardly ever turn it around once you get stuck.

Changing tables is also good if this is happening. Then no one knows how you are running that day and they won't come after you. Never let people know how you are running at the table. Never complain or throw cards. It's a cue to attack and make plays on you that they may not do otherwise.

I've also been playing internet poker and it is really nice to be able to quickly exit the games I am losing at and find a new one.

The reason I like it if the "good" players are winning at the table and the fish are losing is the game is much more under control. The fish are much more passive and the game is less like bingo. I hate the bingo games, that is my pet peeve. But, I also play best when the skilled players have control over the game.

I hope this helps!

[BogeyWan]

I haven't been playing that long but I seem to run into the same pattern you are experiencing. I get the big sessions, greed sets in and all of a sudden my sole purpose is to rake chips and everything goes to hell. Now I realize that the purpose for the "professional" player is to leave with a profit. That's why you play poker is because of the positive expectation. However..... I've found that I will almost always play better when I sit down to play with the mindset that this is going to be a mental and physical exercise which I enjoy, rather than "I need to make money." The goal is to play "good" poker all the time, and you may tell yourself that you are, but you WILL play differently depending on your mindset. I played golf for many years, (probably the single most frustrating endeavor aside from poker). Most all my best rounds of golf came when I quit trying to "score" and just enjoyed the round and let my swing just happen. Don't worry about the stack, make outplaying and outguessing your opponents your goal and the chips will come.
Just wondering... especially on-line... have you ever just been on a good run, good plays, good cards then look down and be a little surprised how far up you are? You know, the "Zone". You completely ignore your stack, and you are just so involved in the game, you can almost "feel" what everyone has and what's coming off the deck. It's happened a couple of times to me. I was wondering if anyone else experiences this on a regular basis?

[RydenStoompala]

Thankfully I adopted a good ("book learned") philosophy on losing sessions early in my learning curve. Since one session is just another chapter is a never-ending book, I use the bad ones as good learning experiences. Sometimes, like last night, I couldn't win if the dealer helped me and all cards were face up. Developing skills at reading players, playing good hole cards and being agressive has kicked up the bankroll fluctuations but according to my records, has made me a borderline good player. How many bad sessions could be strung together? An infinite number if I do not play well and keep picking very tough games to enter. What's the norm? One really bad session for every one really incredible session (can't lose). Most sessions Are what they should be, pleasant grinds with a solid win. What I have found helps is taking a little more time off after a beating, which is not really possible if you're in Vegas for three days to play poker. Keep the log book current.

One other thing. I found the games at 10-20 and 20-40 almost unrelated to the low limit stuff. It's easy to be dominant and sometimes a huge winner at low limits. It's also possible to pick up bad habits, grind for hours against calling stations who thump you with hold cards like 2-7 off suit, and generally get into a funk. The mid limits, for me, have been much more rewarding and easier to analyze.