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  #1  
Old 09-10-2005, 12:26 AM
Getliquid Getliquid is offline
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Default top pair,turned flush draw please help

1-2 stars
Villian is smart aggressive player effective stacks $300
Hero on button with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Villian limps utg, 1 more limper
Hero calls
sb folds,bb checks
flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Villian bets $6
hero calls
turn($22): T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
villian bets 20, hero calls (?)
river($62): 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
villian bets 40, hero ?


Do you think that a flop raise is better than a call? why?

Does anyone make a move on the turn?
big raise? min-raise/check behind UI? fold?? What if I hadn't picked up the flush+gutshot? Set actually seems likely from this villian,aa,kk,qk,ak are possible too). Villian has 3-bet quite a bet.
As played can I call the river? We need to be good 40/100 = 2/5 of the time right? what are we expecting to see that we beat?

please, any comment on any street. thanks.
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2005, 10:58 AM
TreyOfLight TreyOfLight is offline
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Posts: 15
Default Re: top pair,turned flush draw please help

The turn is a better place to raise than the flop. You have 12 "nut" outs and the J outs may be good too. I think that's your best chance to get a fold from a stronger king.

You don't have odds to just call for the flush; doing so obligates you to call the river.
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  #3  
Old 09-12-2005, 11:20 AM
fuzzbox fuzzbox is offline
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Posts: 30
Default Re: top pair,turned flush draw please help

Fold the river, we only realistically beat a bluff. AK/KQ/KT/K9 are all sitting there beating us over the head.

The only thing we beat are busted hearts.
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  #4  
Old 09-12-2005, 11:23 AM
fuzzbox fuzzbox is offline
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Default Re: top pair,turned flush draw please help

[ QUOTE ]
The turn is a better place to raise than the flop. You have 12 "nut" outs and the J outs may be good too. I think that's your best chance to get a fold from a stronger king.

You don't have odds to just call for the flush; doing so obligates you to call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do I have to throw good money at the river because I called the turn ?

I can probably bluff any [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and get some value on any [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] so calling the turn is ok. We might even have the best hand.
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  #5  
Old 09-12-2005, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: top pair,turned flush draw please help

I am an aggressive 25/50NL player but..

With two limpers I raise that from the button.

You must raise the flop. Make it $20 to go.

If you had done the above, this hand would play
itself from that point on.
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2005, 01:12 PM
TreyOfLight TreyOfLight is offline
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Posts: 15
Default Re: top pair,turned flush draw please help

[ QUOTE ]
Why do I have to throw good money at the river because I called the turn ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because:
[ QUOTE ]
We might even have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and I agree that calling the turn is not bad. But your best hand will cost another bet to show down, a lot of the time. If you count that equity in the turn-call decision, you need to follow through on the river.

With position, I'd rather spend the same money on a turn raise, and take a free showdown with anything I beat.
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