Fold to the turn checkraise?

mute · #1 09-07-2005, 11:06 AM

Villain had played 7 out of 10 hands so far without raising. Not much read on him otherwise.

I smelled a flush here. Worth looking him up?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9 BB

stigmata · #2 09-07-2005, 11:10 AM

I like it -- villain could have many things, all of which beat you.

ImNew · #3 09-07-2005, 11:11 AM

I wouldn't have called the flop when a passive opponent 3 bet into me preflop. (particularly when I missed the flop)

mute · #4 09-07-2005, 11:16 AM

I have a gutshot and I'm getting 11:1. Seems worth a peel.

stigmata · #5 09-07-2005, 11:16 AM

1) it was BB who 3-bet preflop, but the passive villain (SB) bet on the flop

2) we have a gutshot at least.

TomBrooks · #6 09-07-2005, 11:21 AM

I'd call it because you have two Kings and three Nines that might give you the best hand, and a Ten would give you a good straight unless someone had an Ace. Thats nine dirty outs, but your getting 9:1 pot odds so you only need five outs to make a call correct.

stigmata · #7 09-07-2005, 11:38 AM

I think your way overestimating the outs on the turn here -- there is a good chance we are drawing dead to a straight/flush/2-pair. The villain donked the flop and checkraised the turn. Even the best case scenarios have us drawing very thin or to half the pot.

TomBrooks · #8 09-07-2005, 11:41 AM

Oh yeah, the turn puts three to a flush on the board. At full ring, I go by the maxim, "Don't draw to a straight with a three-flush on the board." Does that apply to Shorthand, also?

stigmata · #9 09-07-2005, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, the turn puts three to a flush on the board. At full ring, I go by the maxim, "Don't draw to a straight with a three-flush on the board." Does that apply to Shorthand, also?

[/ QUOTE ]

Er.... it depends????

E.g. If you have a read that nobody has the flush already (i.e. nobody has shown much strenght), then you just reduce your outs to 6 for an open-ender, or 3 for a gutshot. If you are unsure if someone has the flush, reduce your outs even further. Is the pot big enough to draw to these outs?

This is an over-simplification, but you get the point: It depends. But there are definately times that you should be drawing to a good straight draw with a 3-flush showing in a big pot. Both at short handed and full ring.

This is not the hand though (idiot gutshot on 3-flush versus passive player showing lots of aggression).