how badly did I play this 1/2 NL live cash game hand ? thanks guys! - Page 2

pzhon · #11 09-06-2005, 05:16 PM

In my first live game, I played rather tightly. When I first raised, the player to my right exclaimed, "Oh my, the quiet guy in the corner raised!" Several people still called, including one with A4 who flopped TPNK and called my push when I rivered a set. Later, I decided to take advantage of my tight image and raised in early position with KJ. Someone called with AJ and another guy reraised me with QTs.

Even if you have been playing tightly, and even if other people have noticed, don't assume they are making good adjustments to your play. Don't assume the reraise was KK or AA.

On the flop, you are far behind the nut flush or AA with the ace of clubs, which would have no need to push. You have 11 outs against red AA, and win 42%, or $195 back from the $463 pot for your $200 call. If he has red kings, he won't like the flop, but might push, and you have a freeroll giving you $315. If he has black queens, he'll like that flop and might push, but you will get back $432, for a gain of $232. You have to be very certain you are behind AA and calling is wrong by $5 to make up for the times calling is right by $115 or $232. You can't be, so this is an easy call.

jman220 · #12 09-06-2005, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you raise was much too big before the flop.
you cant put him on aces that easily.
easy call.

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For a live casino game, no, his raise was almost too little. YOu can raise to $12 with kings live, because youor'e still gonna get 2-3 callers. Hell, I routinely raise to $15 live with a hand like that and know i'm getting at least one caller. Sure, 10x the bb is a lot, but if you know you will be called, and you have KK, why not raise that much?

mmmmmbrother · #13 09-06-2005, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you raise was much too big before the flop.
you cant put him on aces that easily.
easy call.

[/ QUOTE ]

For a live casino game, no, his raise was almost too little. YOu can raise to $12 with kings live, because youor'e still gonna get 2-3 callers. Hell, I routinely raise to $15 live with a hand like that and know i'm getting at least one caller. Sure, 10x the bb is a lot, but if you know you will be called, and you have KK, why not raise that much?

[/ QUOTE ]

if thats the case then whats better two callers of a 15 dollar bet or 10 callers of a 8 dollar bet

capone0 · #14 09-06-2005, 06:40 PM

I guess you like playing against 10 players, b/c against the field, your likely to lose with KK unless a K drops.

mmmmmbrother · #15 09-06-2005, 08:42 PM

true but you will always have a huge equity advanage.
but then again you dont play live to make money you play to have fun and or win

pzhon · #16 09-06-2005, 11:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess you like playing against 10 players, b/c against the field, your likely to lose with KK unless a K drops.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, KK is a big underdog if several players with random hands go to the river. However, usually you will bet on the flop, and people with weak hands and weak draws will fold. The chance of getting outflopped is much lower than the chance to be behind by the river, particularly if there is no ace on the flop.

Even without the ability to protect your hand against weak draws, you still have a huge advantage. Par in a 10-way pot is to win 10%, and KK wins far more than that, 26% against random hands. Every dollar you put in returns $2.60. You get only about $1.65 back against one random hand.

#17 09-08-2005, 07:06 PM

Your mistake was checking after the flop. Had you pushed instead of checking, he would've had to put you on the flush, and folded. You already knew that if he went all in you were going to have to call with your king high draw. You also knew that he probably had you beat with AA. at that point, you only had 2 moves, All-in, or all out, NOT checking.

tripdad · #18 09-08-2005, 11:23 PM

in your first post, you said you put your opponent on AA, and that was the reason you just called. in your 2nd post, you said you put him on QQ, and that was the reason you called his all-in. what changed your mind once the flop hit?

FWIW. i play the hand the same as you because i can't put any opponent on AA, and i don't fold KK preflop ever in a cash game. had anyone called between the re-raisor and myself preflop, i push all in with a clean conscience every time. if i lose, i lose. as for post flop there, if i had red kings, i would lead out for 1/2 pot, and fold to a raise of any size.

cheers!

jman220 · #19 09-08-2005, 11:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your mistake was checking after the flop. Had you pushed instead of checking, he would've had to put you on the flush, and folded. You already knew that if he went all in you were going to have to call with your king high draw. You also knew that he probably had you beat with AA. at that point, you only had 2 moves, All-in, or all out, NOT checking.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 1/2 no limit live (live being key), and villain has pocket aces. Villain is about 90 percent to call a push. Not saying that pushing here is the wrong move, I think its probably the right one, just saying that it doesn't give you as much fold equity as your post indicates.

squallA964 · #20 09-09-2005, 02:13 AM

I play in a similar game to this, $12 standard raise, lots of action with weak hands. I play very tightly and still get 2-3 callers every time I play a hand. I even make fun of them for playing hands against me by pointing out how tight I am, or I even say "Another caller? YES!!!" before the flop even comes out. And they always pay me off. It's true that someone eventually gets lucky with 10-9s or something like that, but you can usually even sniff those out depending on the player.

But in this case, with your hand and flop, I'd push All-In without a second thought. If you're gonna call after the flop, you might as well be the one pushing it. Yeah, you ran into AA this time, but you still even had about 40% chance to win it anyway. I'd say 80% of the time you're gonna be way ahead of some shitty hand, and get paid off huge.