SSH Flop Quiz #16 -- AJs (crossposted)

[McGahee]

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The LRR from a button, as the third person in, is thought of by Sklansky in the same manner as you, not representing a large PP since there was already action but rather a strange play with decent holdings like mid PP or suited connectors.


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OK lets face it - Sklansky HAS TO feel better knowing that I agree with him. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[TeeVeeDude]

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The only problem I have with this is that 1.5 of our outs (the BDFD) depend on a good turn card. Our equity changes significantly if a blank falls on the turn.

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But that's why it's only 1.5 outs... if the turn is the wrong suit, those outs vanish but if the turn is the right suit then you suddenly have a LOT MORE outs.

I have read SSHE, I'm just saying that whether I raise here is dependent on the game context that I'm in. It really depends on what type of hands people are coming in with, and how they play postflop. If you are playing in a super loosy goose B&M game against a bunch of total morons that are coming in with anything it is a clear raise. And I guess that is pretty much a the description from the hand quiz. I'm just saying in some Party 1/2 games it's not an automatic raise for me.

[marchron]

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Does anyone have a link to those Ed Miller quiz articles? There was one question where he compared the mistake of not raising ATs in a spot like this to limping 72o UTG, and not raising ATs was the bigger mistake. There is way too much value missed by checking here, and you even have a hand that plays well multiway.

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I don't have a link but I have the book right here in front of me. (Before I start playing, I place my left hand on it, raise the right, and swear not to cold-call with K/10 offsuit.)

Here it is, pp. 259-60:[ QUOTE ]
5. You have A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the big blind. Six players limp, including the small blind. What should you do?


Answer: Raise. Your hand figures to win far more than its share against a big field. Again, many timid players dislike gambling with hands like these before the flop. They would check, planning to spring to life on a favorable flop. That strategy is profitable, but it is less profitable than raising now. A big suited ace is a terrific hand in a seven-handed pot. Expect to win significantly more than the fourteen percent of the time that is your share against six opponents. Being out of position should make you somewhat less willing to raise, but not when you have such a strong hand. You must take advantage of an edge this big. In fact, not raising here is terrible. It might be a bigger mistake than raising with seven-deuce offsuit!

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I don't know so much about that.

[GrunchCan]

All apoligies to Ed Miller, but I have never agreed with the advice from SSH on this particular hand. I concede that I very well could be wrong, but I feel deep down that we must check this flop. It seems to me that the most likely occurance is also the worst for us EV-wise: We bet, one or both the limpers fold, the button check-raises, and the SB folds. This leaves us OOP on a HU (or 3-way) hand with 2 cards to come on a board where we have (in my view) a hand worth 5 outs. I'd rather just check & peel.

[aK13]

For those who don't read SS, there is a suggestion for check/raising which I particularly like.

[Guruman]

-blind response-

our overcard means pretty much nothing alone since it can't hope to beat this field (and the button's LRR into crowd can only be for value). Button probably already has at least TPTK, if not AA or a set. He will probably also raise once it gets back around to him.

The two middle limpers and the sb have played this hand very passively so far, and we may lose one or two of them by the turn.

Our only shot at survival is the flush and straight draws. Flush is worth 1.5 outs, and the tens are worth 4. With 5.5 outs we need a little better than 8-1 if we are behind.

Getting 20-1, this is clearly a value bet.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]