Mechanics Questions -- All in.

[KenProspero]

I have a few questions about what to do when someone raises all in, but cannot make a complete raise.

Situation 1. Player 1 bets $10. Player 2 raises to $16 (total, and is all in).

First, my understanding is that since the raise ($6) was more than half of the previous bet, this counts as a raise (for purposes of determining the maximum number of raises). Also, even if no one else raises, Player 1 can re-raise.

When the betting comes to Player 3, what are his options? Call $16 obviously. But if Player 3 wants to raise, would the minimum be $16 + $4 (completing the raise) or $16 + $10 (adding the previous full bet)?

Situation 2. Player 1 bets $10, and Player 2 raises to $14 (total and is all in).

My understanding is that since the all in bet was a raise of at least 1/2 the minimum raise this doesn't count as a raise for purposes of the maximum amount of raises. Also, if no one else raises, Player 1 can call, but cannot raise.

Does anything change from the previous situation with Player 3?

Situation 3. Player 1 bets $10, and Player 3 Bets $15 (total/all in), i.e., exactly 1/2 the minimum raise. Is this considered a Raise, Can Player 1 re-raise if there is no intervening raise?

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a few questions about what to do when someone raises all in, but cannot make a complete raise.

Situation 1. Player 1 bets $10. Player 2 raises to $16 (total, and is all in).

First, my understanding is that since the raise ($6) was more than half of the previous bet, this counts as a raise (for purposes of determining the maximum number of raises). Also, even if no one else raises, Player 1 can re-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if this was a limit game. If it was pot- or no-limit, it's not a raise and betting isn't reopened.

[ QUOTE ]
When the betting comes to Player 3, what are his options? Call $16 obviously. But if Player 3 wants to raise, would the minimum be $16 + $4 (completing the raise) or $16 + $10 (adding the previous full bet)?

[/ QUOTE ]

NL, he raises to $20 or more as if the all-in wasn't there. limit, he can raise to $26.



[/ QUOTE ] Situation 2. Player 1 bets $10, and Player 2 raises to $14 (total and is all in).

[/ QUOTE ]

Now NL and limit are exactly the same- the raise isn't a raise, the all-in is treated as if they aren't there (other than having to call a certain amount if you want to limp)

[ QUOTE ]
Does anything change from the previous situation with Player 3?

Situation 3. Player 1 bets $10, and Player 3 Bets $15 (total/all in), i.e., exactly 1/2 the minimum raise. Is this considered a Raise, Can Player 1 re-raise if there is no intervening raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, half or more in a limit game is a raise, we're back to the first situation- Player 1 can make it $25 to go for anyone else.

At least, that is my understanding.

[lossage]

My reading of Robert's Rules confirms Larry's reply.

In your situations 1 and 3, the all-in player has raised and, therefore, re-opened the betting for the first player in limit poker but not in no- or pot-limit poker. In limit, Player 1 can either fold, call, or make a full raise. In no- or pot-limit, he can only fold or call if no one else raises.

In your situation 2, the all-in bet is not a raise, and the betting is not re-opened for Player 1 if no one else raises.

[cunningham22]

Understood, but as for player 3, 4, etc., are they only allowed a call and then raising is left to the initial raiser? I am asking only for nl.

In situation 2, can someone raise over the 14, and thus reopen the betting for player one?

[Lottery Larry]

Anyone who hasn't acted yet, it doesn't matter what the all-in did. They still have their full range of betting choices.

Player 1, who has already acted before the all-in non-raise, is locked out of reraising unless a) they're a blind (so they haven't really acted yet) or b) someone else raises the proper amount to reopen the betting.

This is true for limit or no-limit- it's just the all-in amount that determines the differences in when betting is reopened.