KJo on an unpleasant board

Argus · #1 08-27-2005, 05:17 AM

The first limper is awful, and one of the reasons I'm at the table. He is 53/13/0.77 over 200 hands according to pokertracker, and my own notes say that he will call pre and post flop with weak holdings. (Calling in a too small pot with a gutshot on two flush board with an ace vs PFR, and similar plays.) The next limper is a bit too loose, but not nearly as bad, about 23/4.5/1.5. I haven't played with him as much, but would expect him to show something decent. I also think that he might notice how bad our friend is and loosen up when he's in the hand.

I question my play on all streets, but particularly the turn, so advice about any element of my play is welcome. If you disagree with an earlier street, I'd like to hear your plan for future action.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (4.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, Hero?

shant · #2 08-27-2005, 05:25 AM

Im definitely betting an Axx flop after raising preflop and being checked to last to act. As the actions stands now, seems like a good raise the turn for free showdown/fold to 3-bet spot.

scrub · #3 08-27-2005, 05:50 AM

Why wouldn't you want to raise a guy with a reasonable vpip in this spot and bet the river?

A lot of the time, you have JQ or JT outkicked. I'm not hoping for a free showdown here.

Then again, I'm drunk.

scrub

Moneyline · #4 08-27-2005, 05:54 AM

I'd bet the flop here. I think checking behind when you airball the flop in a hand where you raised preflop is a very good, very underused tactic. However, I don't think it applies here.

One reason is because the flop is dry. If your opponents didn't hit the flop, there really aren't any possible marginal draws (like an overcard or a gutshot) for them to draw to. If you bet and someone calls, you can narrow down their likely holdings fairly easily. So a flop bet really puts you in the drivers seat, and may even win you the pot right there.

A second reason I like betting is because I think MP2 and MP3 are very unlikely to hold an ace. From the stats you quoted, it looks like MP2 is doing a lot of preflop raising, so this probably means that when he's dealt a hand containing an ace, he's making it 2 bets. MP3 seems pretty passive, but you can still probably rule out AK, AQ, or AJ from his possible hands because he's raising his better hands, and you hold 2 of the cards he'd need to make AK or AJ. This player is also tight enough where you can rule out hands like A7-A2, and maybe even the small suited aces as well. To summarize, neither of these guys is particularly likely to hold an ace, and the BB could hold a wide range of hands.

I think these two factors combined make betting the flop the right play here, and how your opponents react to your bet is the main factor in how you should play out the rest of the hand.

Just my opinion...

shant · #5 08-27-2005, 06:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of the time, you have JQ or JT outkicked.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but his range can also include Axs type hands, right? His PFR is way low so we can't expect him to raise all Aces preflop. I don't make enough thin value bets though.

The Legend · #6 08-27-2005, 11:59 AM

The flop is very very close between a bet and a call. Without the two-flush, a bet is manditory. With it, it depends on the players. A bet is good though as well because it can give you information, and possibly buy a free card. With those combined benefits , I bet.

Anyway, on the turn, you have a marginal holding, small pot, 3 players, 3 flush, fold.