this one felt right? was it? QTo bb against preflop poster

[arkady]

I have no idea why everyone is saying you need to fold on the flop. if you had QK everyone would say call, against a CO poster with an insane range of hands calling with 2 overs is exactly the same idea.

However what I don't understand is the turn 3-bet. After you get raised on the turn, I would just showdown. The possibility of you being way ahead is now significantly lower. Calling your flop raise and raising you on the turn is not weakness. You dont know if he is a maniac and doing this w/T9,JT, AK,67,A7, etc and your position is precarious at best.

So the turn 3-bet is a bit spewy, but otherwise goot. Also given his river bet, I don't think he was pumping overs so hopefully he had JT and not 9T.

[Robb]

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it's a 4 way pot not 3 way.

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Post-flop it's pretty much 3 way. UTG check folded.

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"these plays dilute the effectiveness of your future raises/check-raises by increasing the frequency with which your opponents call. Most of my wins come from having a strong image. And if I do have a strong image then I'll attempt some of these plays. But even then, I'll do it mostly with semi-bluffs not bluffs."

you contradicted yourself there.

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I'm guessing you think I meant that future "made-hand" raises will be called more often. Yes, that's true. But my point was that you miss more often than not so when you raise/check-raise with a non-made hand, it's obviously better if your opponents call you less.

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and youre not recognizing that this flop play here is a semibluff.

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enh. maybe. sure you are drawing to a pair but if that's true then there really is no distinction between a bluff and a semi-bluff.

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i mean i get people calling me down with 55 and A4 on a KQxxx board after ive played no hands for 4 rounds

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And when you've got the goods those times, then it's sweet.

[mike l.]

"Post-flop it's pretty much 3 way. UTG check folded."

no check the hand again. you got the action wrong.

"it's obviously better if your opponents call you less."

right. but you said if your image is good than you make plays like this. that's what i was doing. but then you say dont make them or it may ruin your image.

anyway semantics. it sounds like neither of us have anything to teach the other on this. ive been over all this stuff a million times and my judgement this time said to make the flop c/r w/ my overcards, a play i dont make too often.

[mike l.]

to me the turn 3 bet is interesting and no one discussed it. i felt pretty certain my hand was good when i 3 bet the turn.

anyway villain had 99 for the rivered set.

[Robb]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (8.66 SB) 2, 6, 7 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG folds, MP1 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, CO calls.

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I meant when it was your turn to act on the flop after CO's bet it was 3 handed, since UTG check folded.

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right. but you said if your image is good than you make plays like this. that's what i was doing. but then you say dont make them or it may ruin your image.

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If you have a strong image they're more likely to succeed and the success rate is more important than image considerations as you said, I just don't think the play itself is +EV, let alone the image considerations.
Also, the point of my original response was: what is your image/have you been bluff-raising a lot? And you answered it here
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a play i dont make too often

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That would have been helpful in your original post.

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it sounds like neither of us have anything to teach the other on this.

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I hope I'm not coming off as being stubborn, I've been thinking about this hand for an hour and already I've gone from it being dumb to maybe marginally -EV.

As a side note, I've been mostly a lurker here. I made a post about 5 years ago under my old handle about a call down I made with King high in the Bell 15-30 game that I thought clearly was correct and you were the only one of about 20 posters who agreed with me. I respect your posts because they get me thinking more than 95% of the other posts. So when you push hard I re-evaluate, even when Clarkmeister chimes in and says you're on crack.

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pre-flop?

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Yep. Pre flop.

[mike l.]

"I meant when it was your turn to act on the flop after CO's bet it was 3 handed, since UTG check folded."

no i was in the bb so utg hadnt acted yet on the flop. i dont limp w/ QTo

[mike l.]

we agree that if your image is trash than the play has even less of a chance of working. so it can ironically only be pulled off by a player who is playing respectably

[Robb]

flop - you check, utg folds, mp checks, co bets

it is at this point in time we are debating, the point where you check-raised. At this point, UTG has already folded so it is 3 handed. I know just semantics, but you probably thought I'm legally blind.

[JimmyV]

Hope this doesn't just seem perverse, but I like preflop and flop much better than the turn and river plays here. It will not, I trust, have escaped any 2+2er's attention that the bets on the turn and river are in increments twice as large as the increments of the bets on other streets.

I can't see a good argument for playing the first two streets any other way. Why should either player have hit that flop? What will MP call two with? It would be wasteful not to make a stab at this pot with neither opponent showing any REAL strength (poster's bet is pure continuation; he still feels entitled to the pot because he had to post and has a high card or something).

But what does the turn 3-bet buy you? Are you putting him confidently on a draw? Your river check suggests that you either put him on clubs or regret your turn 3-bet.

I call the turn and bet the river.

Well played though -- and welcome to the online world!

JimmyV