Possible Cheating (Long-ish) Please Help

[Lottery Larry]

STOP LETTING PEOPLE SHUFFLE THEIR OWN DEALING DECKS!

How many [censored] times does this have to be said?? TRAIN THESE PEOPLE ON PROPER SHUFFLING & DEALING PROCEDURES and ALWAYS PRACTICE THEM YOURSELF.

"i have not said anything to him.

i then said stuff to other people in the game, and they observed it. they have claimed to see the same thing, though they are not experienced gamblers. "

WHY THE [censored] DIDN'T ANYONE SAY ANYTHING???


Damn, that's annoying.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
seriously. you're in a game with friends. FRIENDS. some of them hold their cards at 90-degree angles and other people can sometimes see them. that's the kind of game it is. you're not on the lookout for collusion artists. it's a .10/.20 game. let's just say that it's not the type of situation where you're on the lookout for cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]
BULLSHIT! Friends don't cheat friends, or what kind of friends are they?

And Mr "it's a .10/.20 game" he's making 500 BIG BETS A NIGHT!!!

"and the dude is my roommate. "
Hey, clueless, your roommate doesn't give as much of a [censored] about you as you THINK he does.

" and the stakes involved aren't significant (unless you generate a colddecking situation when the stacks actually get deep).'

If you're playing $0.10/0.20 and $100 isn't significant, then WHY are you playing [censored] dime poker??


"this was SO OBVIOUS, and I had absolutely no reasons not to raise a stink right there on the spot with a friend of mine in a friendly game."
More importantly, you have an implicit duty to protect the OTHER players from a goddamn cheat!


"and if you do suspect cheating, it's really stupid to wait to ask other impartial people and then decide a course of action. i am so stupid."

No, but you don't encourage the [censored] either. Shut it down the FIRST time! Change the dealing procedures RIGHT THE [censored] NOW!

"keep in mind that this is the first time that i played with my roommate where he was dealing a substantial number of hands. "
If it takes more than 2 times of his dealing ANY hands, you need to question your own standards.

" now the trick is what inference to draw from it, and this is where i want unbiased people to help me."

Learn proper shuffling and dealing procedures and make sure EVERYONE that you play with follows them. If they refuse, then sit out every hand they deal, watch them like a hawk while they are dealing and point out what they are doing wrong EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN TIME!

"i hope the sarcasm was evident here. sometimes you ask help on these forums, and you get this extremely condescending reply."

And SOMETIMES, when someone is doing something that 1) they should know better about and 2) we have discussed in great detail before on this forum, they DESERVE a GODDAMN condescending reply.

Man oh man, I have to go calm down....

[Lottery Larry]

"8. Dealer responsibility rotates around the table clockwise; the button indicates the dealer position. Two decks are provided for the table; we will alternate decks, shuffling one deck while a hand is being played with the other.

SHUFFLING- The player to the right of the active dealer is responsible for shuffling the previously-used deck each hand. The shuffler should insure that the deck is properly randomized before play, using a mix of shuffling techniques. This shuffling should include at least 5 and preferably 7+ riffle shuffles.

Once the deck has been sufficiently randomized, the shuffler should square up the shuffled deck, put the cut card on top and pass the deck to the appropriate dealer.
If the deck is fumbled, a card is exposed, or any question arises as to the randomness of the shuffling or the exposure of some of the deck to another player, the shuffler should take back the deck, reshuffle for randomization and then pass the deck carefully in the preferred manner.

WASHING- Once every few rounds or less, the deck should be “washed” by the shuffler. Without impeding the progress of the hand currently dealt, the shuffler should spread the cards out, face down, and then mix them together-the cards should remain face down and flat on the table.
Once washed, the shuffler should gather up the cards and shuffle thoroughly, then pass the cards on to the proper dealer-to-be with the cut card on top.

COUNTDOWN- When possible, the shuffler should first count down the deck, in order to insure that the proper number of cards are in the deck.

CUTTING- The player receiving the shuffled deck- who will be dealing the next hand with that deck- should cut the deck, making sure the cut card is on the bottom to hide the bottom card while dealing. The cut should be preferably 3 or more piles of varying size.
Again, if the deck is fumbled, a card is exposed, or any question arises as to the exposure of some of the deck to another player, the future dealer should take back the deck, reshuffle for randomization and then pass the deck carefully in the preferred manner to a player not in the current hand to be cut."

Learn it, practice it, DO IT! One major key to cutting off cheats is this one
"The cut should be preferably 3 or more piles of varying size."
I can give exact methods for this if you'd like

Also, some places have Dealer -2 shuffle, Dealer -1 cut and then hand to the Dealer to pass out the cards.
LL

[THWAP!]

chill out. sorry. i'm not in the home poker forum often. because i'm not playing home games often. Oops.

it's a friendly game, you don't expect cheating. and with the crap you see online, you (if you want not to go insane) eventually just say "that's poker" if you're on the wrong end of set over set.

when you see potential cheating, sometimes it's best to think about the best way to handle the situation, before you do something accusing or vaguely accusatory without enough proof. that's not unreasonable. or you want to observe and have other people observe, just in case you do catch someone redhanded. also reasonable, i think.

in short. chill the [censored] out.

[Lottery Larry]

Well, SOME of us taking cheating, and the general rules of poker, more seriously than others.

So, no, I WON'T chill the [censored] out. Don't make posts complaining about cheating, then get all lolly-gaggy ABOUT the cheating, and expect anything different than what you just got, at least from me.

PS- And you REALLY have no damn excuse, after THIS post:
"Background on me. I play somewhat for the money, but mostly for achievement. This year, I quit my job and started playing for a living. I've done well. I'm now comfortably beating 5/10 NL and 15/30 limit on various sites."

[gmunny]

The best way to reduce the possibility of cheating is to put proper controls (rotating deal, someone else shuffling, someone else cutting and keeping cards on table) in place before the cheating takes place. This eliminates most of the problems before the game even starts. I've played with most of my friends for over 10 years and play at stakes we can easily afford, they are like family, yet we still rotate the deal, cut the deck and shuffle other's deals.

Another way to look at it is why give people on the fence of morality an open door to cheat? It's like leaving your dog home alone with a nice juicy steak on the table. Blah..blah..blah..
G$

[jedi]

I can't believe this is happening. Why is he shuffling 1/2 the time? Why aren't the cards always on the table?

And for the love of God, have someone cut the cards!

[Lottery Larry]

Okay, I'm calmer now. I was a bit over the top on the responses- obviously it hit a nerve.

I think you have a responsibility to the others in that group to cut off the cheating possibilities, even if you are leaving. If you are a pro, you have to know much more than they do. I may have assumed too much knowledge on your part- if you're just an online pro, you don't get exposed to any of this normally. I assume you watch out for online collusion- why didn't this ring the same type of bell for you?

Whether or not you confront your "trustworthy" roommate (who is playing with your money on your online account- have you checked for any fund transfers, BTW?- and probably cheating you at live poker games) is up to you.
Do you know what your goal/hoped-for resolution is for this? Are you looking to get money back? Get a confession?

It's really hard to tell from your responses in this thread if this is at all important to you. So, it's tough to answer (but easy to react to, obviously)

My apologies for the extreme nature of some of my responses. It's a personal issue for me and I've addressed similar things before on this forum (as you may have noticed now)

[masse75]

[ QUOTE ]
chill out. sorry. i'm not in the home poker forum often. because i'm not playing home games often. Oops.

it's a friendly game, you don't expect cheating. and with the crap you see online, you (if you want not to go insane) eventually just say "that's poker" if you're on the wrong end of set over set.

when you see potential cheating, sometimes it's best to think about the best way to handle the situation, before you do something accusing or vaguely accusatory without enough proof. that's not unreasonable. or you want to observe and have other people observe, just in case you do catch someone redhanded. also reasonable, i think.

in short. chill the [censored] out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has got to be the DUMBEST response ever. You solicit opinions about cheating, then tell us to chill out?

Next time your roommate comes home with a new watch, think to yourself, "I paid for that."

Then again, it's only .10/.20

[Dbldaggers]

It is obvious he is cheating.

Now what to do?

It has been mentioned before and you seem not to think it is important to protect yourself from this guy.

Chill out?

The guy wins 100 dollars a night in a .10/.20 game by (hmm.... this is a family forum) over you and your friends.

How trustworth is this guy? It sounds like you have no reason not to trust him otherwise.

but dude, it will be hard to chill out if money is missing from your online accounts or from your bank account.

Imagine your chagrin if you are missing a few checks?

or you start to new charges on your credit cards you never made...

chillin out may be a bit tough then.

CYA on all money matters. don't think it can't happen cause it happens everyday.

DD