Flushed

[krishanleong]

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The pot is already really large... i would rather have a really good chance to win the pot than an ok chance to win a larger pot.

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What I'm saying is you have basically the same chance of winning. Folding everyone out does nothing for you against AK and does little against a K or pp and only does somethng if someone had a better ace and would have stayed in.

Krishan

[Buckmulligan]

I think the flop is a tough call between 3 betting and calling, but I think I call here. Our equity is not that high if we drive out the EP players, but our implied odds are very very good if we get action leading into us on the turn if a heart hits opposed to a possible check to us on the turn if the heart hits.
If this were a situation in which it appeared that a free card could be bought, i'd be all for this, but I doubt that's happening.

I have to agree with krish here. CO is likely the only player to have a bigger ace, and if he has AK,KQ,KK, AA, or 99 you do not want it heads up. The only way I like a raise here is if you think you can get him to lay down a hand like QQ or JJ on the turn. You have a big draw and I think building a big pot on the flop is the way to go.

[MoP_86]

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The pot is already really large... i would rather have a really good chance to win the pot than an ok chance to win a larger pot.

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What I'm saying is you have basically the same chance of winning. Folding everyone out does nothing for you against AK and does little against a K or pp and only does somethng if someone had a better ace and would have stayed in.

Krishan

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True, i failed to recognize the fact that someone is most likely holding Ace good kicker.... i think you've won me over on calling. 3 betting still isnt a horrible play IMO.

[sy_or_bust]

There are 2 angles you can take from the flop 3-bet, both depending on your read of the opponent. One I emphasized more than the other previously, although I'm now thinking it is the less important of the two.

First, you can clean up your aces if possible and attempt to push CO off a hand. The flop is K-high, but CO may be capable of folding a lesser PP or AQs-type hand on the turn. I know a lot of players would do this as SOP.

Or, you can take the free card. This is much better than calling the flop too. When you call, MP2 will often just call and the rest will fold for 2, and you will be faced with at least one bet on the turn. When you 3-bet, MP2 will sometimes fold a king, else call and check to you on the turn (which CO will do most of the time also). Then you take your free card, cheaply.

[sy_or_bust]

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I have to agree with krish here. CO is likely the only player to have a bigger ace, and if he has AK,KQ,KK, AA, or 99 you do not want it heads up.

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But if he has QQ-TT, AQ/AJ, or worse, your 3-bet WINS this pot on the turn against a lot of opponent types, and the above hands (save KK/99, which are usually capping the flop) won't want to raise you on the turn.

[chesspain]

I'ld probably fold this preflop, since both your kicker and your position relative to the raiser suck.

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I'ld probably fold this preflop, since both your kicker and your position relative to the raiser suck.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, I figure those two points might lean some to a fold, and I wasn't sure but I wanted to play. I still had absolute position and expected seven to the flop.

[krishanleong]

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3 betting still isnt a horrible play IMO.

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Oh it's horrible. It's just not easy to figure out how horrible it is.

Krishan

You are right. My main point was that CO is likely the only player to have a bigger ace, so this is not a situation where you likely buying any outs by getting the other players to fold bigger aces. I would really like to know CO's PFR standards to figure if his PF raise means premium hand or not. I think it is unlikely he is raising AQ on this flop, and I would like to have an idea if I think I can get him to fold QQ-TT.