Either the Best Call or the Worst Call I've Ever Seen - Opinions?

[rwanger]

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He was value betting against his opponent's J high.

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[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

LOL!

I hadn't considered that...

[thejameser]

which one was the loose and bad one again? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[n1bd]

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Totally opposite end of the table

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Yet he's sitting on your immediate left? Must be a large table. Or very shorthanded.

[captZEEbo1]

Stop trying to do a 7.5 buyin bluff.

It doesn't get much worse than your play. I see people all the time who think they should have won if the other guy would have just folded. They play NL because large bets are their only chance of winning. His call, whether bad or not, is a completely different issue. You should never have even been there.
That being said, he most likely either 1) had someone signal who could see your cards because you pull this kind of thing all the time or 2) had so little respect for your hands based on your past plays that he thought KQ high was good. Either way, your play was really really bad.

You can only attack a loose and bad player when you have a decent hand. You cannot bluff a bad player, no matter what. Textbook stuff here. I see nothing wrong with calling the preflop raise against a loose and bad player. $30 is a very small price to pay if you stand to gain $7470 on the back side. I do this kind of thing all the time and it is where most of my profit comes from in NL. But not in my wildest dreams would I have played the hand like you did post flop.

[Marnixvdb]

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He was horrible, as in one of those guys who calls with J high and says that he knew his opponent was bluffing.


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why did you pick this guy to bluff at?

Marnix

[Mens Rea]

Again gentlemen, as I explained above, I don't normally play like this and I realize my play is bad. As I said, I've been fooling around with stuff like this lately, and have basically broken even.

What I am interested in is what you think of opponent's call. I'd like to know if there is anyone here who can pick something out of my line that would induce them to call themselves, or if anyone at all would call this bet. I just thought it was interesting, because it was by far and away the strangest call I've ever seen.

[Mens Rea]

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It doesn't get much worse than your play. I see people all the time who think they should have won if the other guy would have just folded. They play NL because large bets are their only chance of winning. His call, whether bad or not, is a completely different issue. You should never have even been there.
That being said, he most likely either 1) had someone signal who could see your cards because you pull this kind of thing all the time or 2) had so little respect for your hands based on your past plays that he thought KQ high was good. Either way, your play was really really bad.

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I don't know what level you play at, but I would go so far as to say that 80-90% of what I would call bad players would lay down JJ-KK, given the way the action played. Your opinion might be correct at $1-2, but I don't think it holds true here. eAnyone agree/disagree?

And I also think that the statement - "You can't bluff a bad player" is assinine. They can be bluffed - it just requires a different kind of bluff than one would use against a skilled opponent.

But I digress yet again - I just wanted some opinions on the call.

Doyle Brunson's Super System 2, page 533.
"You should never start out bluffing at a pot and keep bluffing at it without an out"

Your only out was him pretty much folding. That is not an out. Not only would bad players lay down JJ-KK here but good players may as well. BUT...since you say you make these plays all the time I wouldn't lay down to you either. He obvously had a reason for calling. The fact that maybe he should not have called is no excuse for your play. I see this all the time. As far as his call goes, he clearly had a reason for calling and it is most certainly one of the 2 points I have already mentioned.