Weird big blind hand, callers everywhere, value bet river? - Page 2

GimmeDaWatch · #11 08-21-2005, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the responses, here's the rest of the hand:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Button ($106.70)
SB ($59.30)
Hero ($99.55)
UTG ($36.85)
MP ($77.75)
CO ($160.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($5) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $4.75, UTG calls $4.75, MP calls $4.75, Button calls $4.75, SB folds.

Turn: ($24) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10, MP calls $10, Button calls $10.

River: ($64) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $64

Results below:
Hero has Qc 8h (two pair, queens and eights).
UTG has Qd 8d (two pair, queens and eights).
MP has 9s Ah (high card, ace).
Button has 5c Qh (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $32. UTG wins $32.

Needless to say I was f'ing shocked to see high card ace (ok, not really, cuz I love those guys), but I felt kinda handcuffed. Thanks again for the responses,

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus. See, weak leeeeeeeead, fishy McButton was callin for sure. Well, maybe anyway.

mattrado · #12 08-21-2005, 04:23 PM

Hindsight is 20/20 ain't it? I guess a weak lead is appropriate, but I hate not calling an all in raise with a pot like that (which I feel is likely enough to keep me from leading). I figure I'm pot committed at that point - but maybe that is the point.

#13 08-21-2005, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hindsight is 20/20 ain't it? I guess a weak lead is appropriate, but I hate not calling an all in raise with a pot like that (which I feel is likely enough to keep me from leading). I figure I'm pot committed at that point - but maybe that is the point.

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I don't think a weak lead would be right here. With a 4 way pot and that board, I expect a middle two pair to be beat about 80% of the time. I would normally expect the river to go something like this, Hero checks, Idiot 1 bet, Idiot 2 raises...Hero folds, Idiot 1 reraises...

I don't think there's much point to a weak lead b/c you're going to be beat the majority of time. And worse yet, you're essentially going to be value betting someone else's hand who will probably be afraid to raise.

GimmeDaWatch · #14 08-21-2005, 11:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hindsight is 20/20 ain't it? I guess a weak lead is appropriate, but I hate not calling an all in raise with a pot like that (which I feel is likely enough to keep me from leading). I figure I'm pot committed at that point - but maybe that is the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a weak lead would be right here. With a 4 way pot and that board, I expect a middle two pair to be beat about 80% of the time. I would normally expect the river to go something like this, Hero checks, Idiot 1 bet, Idiot 2 raises...Hero folds, Idiot 1 reraises...

I don't think there's much point to a weak lead b/c you're going to be beat the majority of time. And worse yet, you're essentially going to be value betting someone else's hand who will probably be afraid to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

So then you're advocating a check-fold? I was suggesting leading small as an alternative to check-calling, which is what others were recommending, b/c it would almost certainly cost less if someone does bet. I think this method also makes it less likely that you will be bluffed. BTW, I think you can safely fold to a raise.