Reraising with nut flush draw and two overs on the turn?

lwspoker69 · #1 08-20-2005, 09:15 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 5 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Did I play that okay?

aK13 · #2 08-20-2005, 09:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls

Did I play that okay?

[/ QUOTE ]

This part is really bad.

Flop call is pretty thin.

Turn semi-bluff raise is pretty read dependent.

Vote4Pedro · #3 08-20-2005, 09:19 PM

I'd fold or 3bet PF

lwspoker69 · #4 08-20-2005, 09:19 PM

Should I be reraising both preflop and on the flop?

What is my move on the turn? Just a call?

aK13 · #5 08-20-2005, 09:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should I be reraising both preflop and on the flop?

What is my move on the turn? Just a call?

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be folding preflop unless he's a very light raiser (in which case you 3bet to isolate, light meaning raises a lot of hands) or call only if there's a lot of coldcallers in between. Coldcalling first with ATs is VERY bad -- SSH even tells you this exact hand is bad to play vs. a preflop raise.

You should fold the flop. You have only about 3 outs to your overs and 1.5 to your backdoor draw, and the pot is only laying 8.5:1.

Call the turn, since you're drawing. There's no value in raising, since you are an underdog to make the best hand by the river.

detruncate · #6 08-20-2005, 10:08 PM

I don't like the pf call under most circumstances. If he's raising light enough that you'd consider calling next to act in MP, you should probably raise instead. I could see coldcalling even if you're not a significant favourite if several players behind you are very likely to follow suit. Most times I just fold.

The turn is a reasonable semibluff. It's not, however, a value bet when you're behind. You therefore have to evaluate the chances of taking down down the pot and compare it to what you're being offered in the way of incentive. The trouble comes when he calls and the river blanks and you have to decide whether it's worth trying to push him off a better Ace... but that's another post.

bozlax · #7 08-20-2005, 10:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did I play that okay?

[/ QUOTE ]

In order to answer this, you must tell us what you were trying to accomplish. Did you have a read that Villan would fold to your raise?

You're not raising for value. You've got 6 outs to top pair, but those may be tainted if Villan's preflop raising standards are what you'd expect them to be (he might be holding an ace [AK/AQ/AJ] or a high pocket pair [KK/QQ/JJ] that would ruin some or all of your outs). You've got 9 outs to the nut flush. So, at best (if Villan raised preflop with 7x/6x/2x, with x not being an ace, ten, seven, six or two, or if he's going nuts with overcards, one of which isn't an ace), you've got 15 outs, so you're well below 50% equity.

So, in a nutshell, unless a) you have a read that Villan is some kind of mental case, or b) you're psychic and you know you're rivering a spade, this is, by definition, spewing.

lwspoker69 · #8 08-21-2005, 01:36 AM

I'm still new to limit poker, but I'll try and explain my rationale for my moves, even if they are wrong. Villain had been raising a lot of hands preflop, junk like a2o and k9o, so i couldn't put him on a good hand. I suppose raising would have been better, I'll keep that in mind (remember, i'm new at this!)

on the flop i called his bet cause i felt like all he had was two overs, and that maybe i could take it away on the turn. this kind of thinking is probably flawed in limit, but i don't know. now im sort of thinking i played every street wrong. thanks for the advice all.

Nick C · #9 08-21-2005, 03:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain had been raising a lot of hands preflop, junk like a2o and k9o, so i couldn't put him on a good hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, go ahead and 3-bet. (Well, unless the A2o and K9o raises were steal-raises when Villain was folded to in LP.)

If you were further away from Villain and couldn't isolate like this (let's say there were already a couple of cold-callers by the time the action got to you), then cold-calling becomes more of an option, although even then I might 3-bet, with a hand as good as ATs.

Facing a preflop raise from a more reasonable player, I would just fold the ATs.

ddss6_99 · #10 08-21-2005, 04:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
on the flop i called his bet cause i felt like all he had was two overs, and that maybe i could take it away on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anybody else think that if one intended to try to take it away on the turn that maybe a flop raise followed by a turn bet would work better than a flop call and turn raise? I wouldn't really count on most Villains going away for one more bet on the turn, especially in micro limits. Obviously this one did so take it for what it's worth.