general situational question

[kamelion44]

Along with the various LPs, LAGs, and TAGs at $3-6 and $5-10 SH, I see alot of guys with stats like 50/10/1, or ultra-passive players, and I got in a situation with one today that gave me some problems.

99 in EP, raised, got three-bet from the SB by a 41/6/.9 LP. I just called and flop came real ragged, 852. He led...what's the line here?

[Catt]

A 50/10/1 isn't ultra-passive. The post-flop aggression factor is influenced by the number of flops seen (VPIP) and I think of a 50/x/1 guy as reasonably aggressive.

As for a line, I don't think you can come up with something that is tailored to stats, particularly AF stats, in these situations. I'd much rather have seen three hands that he donked the flop with than his stats to inform my line. I sometimes (more often than not) raise the flop bet. I sometimes call and raise the turn or bet when checked to.

[kamelion44]

Yeah good response. I think I've been putting too much weight into stats lately or misunderstanding what they're telling me.

[Catt]

I didn't go into detail on the whole post-flop AF thing in my original response, but here is my view on it from a post I wrote some time ago (and in a different, non-SH, forum) when I thought some posters were misinterpreting that particular stat:

[ QUOTE ]
Post-Flop Aggression Factor. The implications of the PT post-flop aggression factor is frequently misunderstood. The problem stems from the fact that the AgFactor cannot be read in a vacuum -- it is highly influenced by VP$IP and # of flops seen. In our ML FAQ we restate the consensus view that an AgFactor of 2.0 or higher is cconsidered "aggressive;" 1.0 - 2.0 is "neutral;" and less than 1.0 is "passive." These ranges are by and large considered standard. However, such ranges are based upon an assumed VP$IP of 15 - 20 or so. When we encounter a VP$IP of 65% the same scale does not apply. Why? The AgFactor is calculated as (bet % + raise %) / call %. A 1.5 AgFactor is considered neutral around here, but that's for someone with a reasonable VPIP -- our tendency to bet and raise more than call (and thus get a 1.5 AgFactor) is heavily influenced by the fact that (1) we generally only see post-flop play with strong pre-flop hands, and (2) we generally fold when faced with a poor flop and action from others. To maintin a 1.5 AF (again, more betting and raising than calling) when our VP$IP is 65%, we would need to either: (1) be a very disciplined folder when the flop misses us, so that even though we're seeing ~65% of the flops we are getting away from them immediately when we miss; or (2) bet and raise a whole crapload of terrible and marginal hands. Most 60% VP$IP players are not disciplined folders post-flop, so you should generally assume that a 60/7/1.5 player is betting and raising a whole crapload of terrible or marginal holdings until proven otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]