Another limit adventure - fundamentals : being dominated sucks

[callmedonnie]

I'm not sure about the flop call. Since there is another player already in, if you have confidence he will come along it's alright. I don't like calling raises with this hand in this position .

After the flop you have to take some action at some point. I think the c/r is probably best. If he 3 bets you need to call and c/f the turn, unless you catch a 10 or a spade.

Just calling down is really weak. If you have the best hand and you are losing value and letting people draw on you cheap. If you don't have the best hand you have no way of knowing and are just contributing aimlessly.

Against a PFR, I'm folding this puppy. Yeah, you have nut flush if 3 spades show up, but the odds (PF) are you won't make it.

[brettbrettr]

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Just calling down is really weak. If you have the best hand and you are losing value and letting people draw on you cheap. If you don't have the best hand you have no way of knowing and are just contributing aimlessly.

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You need to rethink this--most of the people who posted in this thread do. What happens when we raise when we're ahead? What happens when we raise when we're behind?

I agree with folding pre-flop.

[damaniac]

I really so no reason to raise much of anywhere in this hand. I think it should be pretty obvious why. I'm surprised so many people advocate a check-raise. What do you expect it to accomplish?

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correct line is check/call, check/call, bet/fold unless Hero improves to aces and tens.

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Do you think that's more probable that some QQ/JJ/A8 will call final bet than AQ/AJ miss final value bet ?

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I hope you meet my ex-girlfriend.

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Math students don't have girlfriends.

[jason_t]

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Just calling down is really weak.

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Awesome. So we've already used one tired, incorrect cliche that constantly appears on these boards in this thread: "[raise so you have a] better way of knowing where you're at" and here's a second: "[not raising] is really weak." Why don't you guys try to "outplay him postflop too?"

Better yet, minimize the number of bets you put in when you're behind and maxmize the number you make when you're ahead. You have to think about villain's range of hands here and what line you can take that will acheive this: keep him from folding a worse hand when you're ahead and keep from putting in lots of bets when behind. You don't need to raise for information; you already know you're crushed or crushing and what are you going to do with this extra information that might save you .5 SB? Fold? Taking passive lines is okay; you have to find the line that maximizes your overall EV against his range of hands. That is how you outplay someone postflop.

Now please, stop wasting bets to get information, realize that it's okay to call sometimes and start understanding the keys to limit hold'em.

[jason_t]

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Math students don't have girlfriends.

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Speak for yourself. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[SeaEagle]

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Awesome. So we've already used one tired, incorrect cliche that constantly appears on these boards in this thread: "[raise so you have a] better way of knowing where you're at" and here's a second: "[not raising] is really weak." Why don't you guys try to "outplay him postflop too?"

Better yet, minimize the number of bets you put in when you're behind and maxmize the number you make when you're ahead. You have to think about villain's range of hands here and what line you can take that will acheive this: keep him from folding a worse hand when you're ahead and keep from putting in lots of bets when behind. You don't need to raise for information; you already know you're crushed or crushing and what are you going to do with this extra information that might save you .5 SB? Fold? Taking passive lines is okay; you have to find the line that maximizes your overall EV against his range of hands. That is how you outplay someone postflop.

Now please, stop wasting bets to get information, realize that it's okay to call sometimes and start understanding the keys to limit hold'em.


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vnh.

[bandfan]

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Just calling down is really weak.

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Awesome. So we've already used one tired, incorrect cliche that constantly appears on these boards in this thread: "[raise so you have a] better way of knowing where you're at" and here's a second: "[not raising] is really weak." Why don't you guys try to "outplay him postflop too?"

Better yet, minimize the number of bets you put in when you're behind and maxmize the number you make when you're ahead. You have to think about villain's range of hands here and what line you can take that will acheive this: keep him from folding a worse hand when you're ahead and keep from putting in lots of bets when behind. You don't need to raise for information; you already know you're crushed or crushing and what are you going to do with this extra information that might save you .5 SB? Fold? Taking passive lines is okay; you have to find the line that maximizes your overall EV against his range of hands. That is how you outplay someone postflop.

Now please, stop wasting bets to get information, realize that it's okay to call sometimes and start understanding the keys to limit hold'em.

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thank you for this post. i still have a lot to learn...

[Stinkybeaver]

While I do understand the reasons behind the passive line.

Why is ATs a fold from SB...?

Is it a fold to any raise.. (openraise from MP/LP that could be a steal)

or is it a fold b/c there already is one limper in this hand..?

I'm calling this and going with the passive line here, but If fold is the better EV move then tell why that is...?