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#31
08-17-2005, 03:36 PM
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Re: 40-80 K5s
[ QUOTE ]
i don't see how opening K5s in MP with a fish (who presumably plays way too many hands and cold calls too much) in the CO and a LAG who loves to 3-bet on the button could possibly be a good play. you're often dominated and you dont have position. i can't imagine anyone playing that high would be bad enough postflop to make this profitable. maybe if they love to go multiple bets on each street on pure bluffs, but slowplay any vulnerable made hands on the flop and turn by checking through... postflop is standard, of course. [/ QUOTE ] i find it kind of funny that any other poster who posted about playing this hand in this position preflop, at any level with this btn would get flamed about how horrible this play was. given that its mikel, there are about 10 people who consider this play "standard". mikel i challenge you to make a fake account and post short handed hands like this in hush or here and see what kind of responses you get. i'd recommend you doing so, because if you are posting to play better poker, you should be willing to post on an account that will get an unbiased response. it scares me to see how many people say that this hand is "standard". there is nothing further from the truth. read hush. no one who plays 5/10, 10/20, 20/40 or 30/60 short handed opens k5s from this position. some of the better players dont open k9s from this position. k5s is a losing hand in this position. the fairly standard opening standards for utg is AA - 77, AK - A8,7s, A8o KTs, KTo QJo QJ-QTs. for mp you can add 66, A7, A6s K9s, maybe K8s k9o QTo QTs. looser players behind you should lower these standanrds, not increase them. you are obviously not good enough postflop to play this hand as you had to post about how to play when you hit bottom pair. the truth is, i am quite confident no one on this board is. you should focus more on playing standard preflop and using your postflop reads to maximize your profits then overplaying a huge range of hands preflop such that you need to use your postflop ability to try and get back to making the hand break even. stealthcow- 
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#33
08-17-2005, 03:47 PM
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Re: 40-80 K5s
"you had to post about how to play"
no im posting so turds like you can learn how to play live poker in LA. and to entertain myself. i would openraise K5s in an online 6 handed game, hmm, let me think, oh, just about NEVER. as great as those games are they suck compared to live games.
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#35
08-17-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: 40-80 K5s
[ QUOTE ]
i would openraise K5s in an online 6 handed game, hmm, let me think, oh, just about NEVER. as great as those games are they suck compared to live games. [/ QUOTE ] I beg to differ....I will operaise K5s from MP almost anytime online at my favorite Party game, and the play clearly is +EV.
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#36
08-17-2005, 04:02 PM
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result and final comments
let the record show that over the past year ive consistently posted mostly losing hands. sometimes i even lied and said i lost when i had won. well this one i really won. and after all the predictable pointless "why not just fold preflop and save yourself the headache, oh man what a mess! what a problem you got yourself into this time! woah nelly!" posts, i just wanted to mention that:
K5s is too good a hand to fold here against these players. you can just call with it if you want, but i think that's weak, i like to take the initiative. i have a style postflop that makes the most from bullying people out of pots, charging draws the most, getting paid off on my made hands, testing people with their weak hands, in short, forcing my opponents into making errors, at the same time keeping them honest and helping me to read their hands better, when i raise preflop. K5s is a matter of simple analysis. what sort of hands are they coming with preflop? 64o? check. T8o? check. Q7s? check. so am i raising preflop with K5s every time i get it? no chance. am i raising with it when i discern that i have an edge with the hand at that place and time against those players? every time. am i playing it perfectly every time, never getting trapped or misreading the situation? no way, that happens sometimes. am i playing it significantly better than most of you would play it? definitely. i check-called the river and the button tapped the table with his cards. i refused to turn my hand over for him, i wanted to see what he had. he mucked without showing and i did the same and took the pot.
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#37
08-17-2005, 04:05 PM
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Re: 40-80 K5s
".I will operaise K5s from MP almost anytime online at my favorite Party game, and the play clearly is +EV."
well there ya go then you learn something every day, i will start giving that a try. my online game is pretty bad fwiw.
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#38
08-17-2005, 04:07 PM
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Re: 40-80 K5s
[ QUOTE ]
".I will operaise K5s from MP almost anytime online at my favorite Party game, and the play clearly is +EV." well there ya go then you learn something every day, i will start giving that a try. my online game is pretty bad fwiw. [/ QUOTE ] try it, its fun...by the way, I've been playing at the 10/20 Party 6-max games cuz their goot....Doing this at 15/30 is more questionable and obviously in either case, its dependent on the players behind me.
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#39
08-17-2005, 04:49 PM
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Re: 40-80 K5s
[ QUOTE ]
i find it kind of funny that any other poster who posted about playing this hand in this position preflop, at any level with this btn would get flamed about how horrible this play was. given that its mikel, there are about 10 people who consider this play "standard". mikel i challenge you to make a fake account and post short handed hands like this in hush or here and see what kind of responses you get. i'd recommend you doing so, because if you are posting to play better poker, you should be willing to post on an account that will get an unbiased response. it scares me to see how many people say that this hand is "standard". there is nothing further from the truth. read hush. no one who plays 5/10, 10/20, 20/40 or 30/60 short handed opens k5s from this position. some of the better players dont open k9s from this position. k5s is a losing hand in this position. the fairly standard opening standards for utg is AA - 77, AK - A8,7s, A8o KTs, KTo QJo QJ-QTs. for mp you can add 66, A7, A6s K9s, maybe K8s k9o QTo QTs. looser players behind you should lower these standanrds, not increase them. you are obviously not good enough postflop to play this hand as you had to post about how to play when you hit bottom pair. the truth is, i am quite confident no one on this board is. you should focus more on playing standard preflop and using your postflop reads to maximize your profits then overplaying a huge range of hands preflop such that you need to use your postflop ability to try and get back to making the hand break even. stealthcow- [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you here for the most part. But when you are reading one of Mike's post, I don't think you have to biased to judge it. You just have to understand what Mike is thinking at that point and more importantly WHY is he thinking like that. I've mentioned this quite a few times already. Mike makes a lot of iffy pre-flop plays that are clearly -EV. Against most of his live player donkey line up however, they are not that -EV and the edge he gives up pre-flop isn't as bad as it would be against a tougher and better line up. What's more important is his post-flop edge where he clearly has tremendous grasp. Most of the posters in this section don't even play live games that much anymore or on a regular basis. I know where Mike is coming from because I play a lot of live limit games myself and I know exactly the type of opponents Mike describes. Whether Mike wins or loses most of the time when he posts is something I could care less about. What I care about is this man's train of thought where he sees himself in very marginal/dangerous/cliff hanging situations and how is he able to deduce whatever crazy play he does. Then I gotta figure out whether it's right or not. Now that is fun and more importantly - that is poker. Ok suck up time is over. Back to OOT where I post more bikini pics. Lawrence
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#40
08-17-2005, 04:52 PM
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Re: 40-80 K5s
[ QUOTE ]
"you're often dominated" "i can't imagine anyone playing that high would be bad enough postflop to make this profitable." wrong on both counts. [/ QUOTE ] i don't really see how i can be wrong on that first one... you're dominated by KK, AK, KQ, KJ, KT, K9, K8, K7, K6, and possibly 55 depending on your definition of domination. yes, people will often have these hands, and based on your description, they probably dont fold any of them. anyway, if the players really are that bad, i think limping is the better play. you're not winning this hand without hitting a pair or better, so you might as well see the flop cheap. i'll probably get flamed for this.
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