Do you keep playing or quit?

[Mackerel]

Hi all,

I've been playing almost exclusively at the Full Tilt NL100 6-max tables trying to clear a $600 bonus. This seems to be happening to me nearly every day and I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the best way to proceed.

You buy-in for the full $100 at a good table with a couple of big stacks and good action. For the next 1-3 hours, you steadily build your stack up to $150-$250.

Now all of the big-medium stacks are slowly getting busted or leaving, and are replaced, one by one by people buying in for $20-$40. Suddenly you find that it's just you and all of these tiny stacks intent on finding a hand to get all of their money in PF or on the flop.

Do you stay and play with these muppets, hoping one or two of them will build up a stack worth taking (hopefully against others [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]), or do you just leave and start over at a different table? This is really starting to annoy me.

[yvesaint]

It depends on how they're playing. If there's a few crazy short stacks going all-in pre-flop / on the flop, I'll stick around and play tight, because a lot of times, even if I double one of them up, they give back to me later.

It's also a nice 'stepping down' from multi-tabling a lot of poker. Playing against a table of short stacks doesn't require much concentration on my part - just enough to identify who's an idiot and who's not. After a big session, some time to cool down with short stacks is always nice.

[subzero]

Keep playing. You can afford to wait for a hand longer than they can. Wait for a big pair then bust 'em. Try to steal blinds if they're sitting around waiting for a hand.

[Mackerel]

[ QUOTE ]
It depends on how they're playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the response.

Well, they aren't all the same, but mostly they seem to be playing fairly tight and just waiting for the right spots to get in. But with that said, a lot of them will still open push PF with hands like 77, AQo, or even KQs. And almost all of them are willing to get in with TP2K or better if they see a flop.

When I've stayed in, I've mostly taken to aggressively stealing their blinds and limps, but being willing to fold against resistance without a decent hand. This seems to work okay, except that a continuation bet on the flop will often get you PC'd, so I'm finding myself being more passive on the flop than I prefer.

I don't know if I'm just playing wrong or it's just variance, but I seem to backslide quite often against this kind of lineup. I prefer deep-stacked play where there is more room to maneuver. So do you think its still worthwhile to keep playing in these spots?

[ajmargarine]

If they are the kind to push preflop, I maybe stick around for a bit. If they are trying to play "normal poker" with their $20 buy-ins, I leave. I hate shortstackers. And I play at a site where they are an epidemic. Not uncommon to see a $1/$2 table have 10 players with under $40 in front of them. I rationalize that there's not enough money in circulation to be won at the table, and find a better table.

[Mackerel]

[ QUOTE ]
If they are trying to play "normal poker" with their $20 buy-ins, I leave.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks aj, this is kinda where I've been heading in my thinking, I just hate to leave right after I've finally got a stack big enough to really play NL with.

[ QUOTE ]
I hate shortstackers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen!

[poboy]

[ QUOTE ]
If they are the kind to push preflop, I maybe stick around for a bit. If they are trying to play "normal poker" with their $20 buy-ins, I leave. I hate shortstackers. And I play at a site where they are an epidemic. Not uncommon to see a $1/$2 table have 10 players with under $40 in front of them. I rationalize that there's not enough money in circulation to be won at the table, and find a better table.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have this completely backwards. If they are pushing in preflop or on the flop they are likely employing Miller's strategy and you should leave since you will be taking much the worst of it. If they want to try and play poker with short stacks that's something else entirely, this would generally signify that they are weak players and you should stay since you have an edge, unless of course you can find a table with big stacks and weak players(not too difficult to find).
I used to think the same thing you do until I picked up a copy of GSIH and read the short-stack strategy and tried it. You cannot beat this system no matter what you do. JMO

[chumsferd]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to think the same thing you do until I picked up a copy of GSIH and read the short-stack strategy and tried it. You cannot beat this system no matter what you do. JMO

[/ QUOTE ]

If bankroll wasn't a consideration, do you think sitting in the $50/$100 game on UB and playing Miller's shortstack strategy would be +EV for you?

[ajmargarine]

Hey po, I know what you are saying. I too sought out Ed Miller's book to read up on the shortstack strategy after sitting at tables sometimes where everyone is shortstacked. Believe me, 98% of these folks that I play with regularly aren't employing any kind of special strategy. They are weak players playing with scared money. And when they push it's because they have A high, not AA.

Anywho, why wouldn't I want to play with weak players/scared money? Because I would rather play with poor players with normal stacks, which aren't hard to find. When you play with ss'ers, all those nice hands like sc's and pp's that you like to play for the implied odds.....well, you don't have the implied odds to play them if the villians are shortstacked. If a villian with a $20 stack makes it $3 to go and you hold 55, you have to fold it. The implied odds just aren't there for you if you hit your hand. 98s, same deal. Yeah, you can sit there and nut peddle and eek out a profit; but, it's not as good of an investment of your time as playing with a table full of normal stacks. IMO.

[theben]

i leave. i dont like having to adjust play to optimally combat SS when i have to worry about several other good players with 200bb while i am holding the same. i like consistent tables