Don't worry about smart play, just pot bet the best hand, they call.

[Ribbo]

Having just seen a pair of fours won a $400 high pot against a pair of threes (both with A2 for low) I made my usual facetious comment at the table during the next hand, little would i know...... It's hard to fold a pair of threes with a nine kicker, big hand. Especially with a juicy draw to half a pot!

To those who think you have to play clever at the table, you don't. Even the most obvious AA2 is met with complete disregard


***** Hand History for Game 2541624395 *****
$400 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, August 15, 20:54:54 EDT 2005
Table Table 55218 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: oscarMcGooo ( $382 )
Seat 5: Ribbo ( $442.90 )
Seat 8: raysuback ( $448.10 )
Seat 9: rainaruby ( $192.42 )
Seat 10: Dorfeel ( $561.55 )
Seat 1: mridiot2u ( $388 )
Seat 6: perkele2 ( $330 )
Seat 2: Strega ( $394.90 )
Seat 7: tonyfun ( $366 )
Seat 3: nutsgilrs ( $194 )
oscarMcGooo posts small blind [$2].
Ribbo posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ribbo [ Ac Ad 2d 5c ]
tonyfun folds.
raysuback folds.
rainaruby folds.
Dorfeel folds.
mridiot2u calls [$4].
Strega calls [$4].
nutsgilrs calls [$4].
oscarMcGooo folds.
Ribbo: no wonder the pots are so huge with all these big high hands coming out
Ribbo raises [$18].
>You have options at Table 36723 Table!.
mridiot2u calls [$18].
Strega folds.
nutsgilrs calls [$18].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 3d, 4s ]
Ribbo bets [$69].
mridiot2u calls [$69].
nutsgilrs folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8s ]
Ribbo bets [$207].
>You have options at Table 37024 Table!.
mridiot2u is all-In [$297]
Ribbo calls [$90].
** Dealing River ** [ 6h ]
Ribbo shows [ Ac, Ad, 2d, 5c ] a straight, two to six.
Ribbo shows 6,4,3,2,A for low.
mridiot2u shows [ 2h, 9d, 3s, 5s ] a flush, eight high.
mridiot2u shows 6,5,4,3,2 for low.
mridiot2u wins $400.50 from the main pot with a flush, eight high.
Ribbo wins Lo ($400.50) from the main pot with 6,4,3,2,A.

[Ribbo]

Ok I lie, occasionally I check a good flop. But still, why pay me off with that?

***** Hand History for Game 2541796437 *****
$400 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, August 15, 21:21:59 EDT 2005
Table Table 36723 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: shoot2thril2 ( $1314.76 )
Seat 3: jay67 ( $479.20 )
Seat 5: perkele2 ( $155.88 )
Seat 6: Ribbo ( $720.75 )
Seat 8: Saberr ( $296.95 )
Seat 10: rainaruby ( $689.49 )
Seat 7: aliceroo1 ( $76 )
Ribbo posts small blind [$2].
aliceroo1 posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ribbo [ 4h Ac 2s 3c ]
Saberr folds.
rainaruby folds.
>You have options at Table 36562 Table!.
shoot2thril2 raises [$8].
perkele2 has left the table.
jay67 calls [$8].
Ribbo raises [$34].
aliceroo1 folds.
shoot2thril2 calls [$28].
jay67 calls [$28].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4c, 4d, 6c ]
Ribbo checks.
shoot2thril2 checks.
jay67 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7c ]
Ribbo bets [$109].
shoot2thril2 calls [$109].
jay67 folds.
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
Ribbo bets [$327].
>You have options at Table 36562 Table!.
shoot2thril2 calls [$327].
Ribbo shows [ 4h, Ac, 2s, 3c ] a flush, ace high.
Ribbo shows 7,6,4,2,A for low.
shoot2thril2 shows [ 2d, 2h, Qd, Ah ] two pairs, queens and fours.
shoot2thril2 shows 7,6,4,2,A for low.
Ribbo wins $490.50 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
shoot2thril2 wins Lo ($245.25) from the main pot with 7,6,4,2,A.
Ribbo wins Lo ($245.25) from the main pot with 7,6,4,2,A.
>You have options at Table 55218 (No DP) Table!.

[Ribbo]

I love the old, sit down, buy in for $400, post blind, lose it all to me first hand trick [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

***** Hand History for Game 2542299151 *****
$400 PL Omaha Hi/Lo - Monday, August 15, 22:35:39 EDT 2005
Table Table 55218 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: mridiot2u ( $275.50 )
Seat 4: Kat_08 ( $382.10 )
Seat 5: Ribbo ( $843.02 )
Seat 9: rainaruby ( $412.60 )
Seat 10: nikii ( $373 )
Seat 7: tonyfun ( $787.85 )
Seat 6: GVthedruid ( $371 )
Seat 8: fastej ( $241.27 )
Seat 3: jenny_nuts ( $424 )
Seat 2: Koemjing ( $400 )
Kat_08 posts small blind [$2].
Ribbo posts big blind [$4].
>You have options at Table 36723 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36723 Table!.
Koemjing posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Ribbo [ Qs 3s Qd 5c ]
GVthedruid calls [$4].
tonyfun folds.
fastej calls [$4].
>You have options at Table 54689 (No DP) Table!.
rainaruby folds.
nikii folds.
mridiot2u folds.
>You have options at Table 36562 Table!.
>You have options at Table 54689 (No DP) Table!.
Koemjing raises [$18].
>You have options at Table 36562 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36562 Table!.
jenny_nuts folds.
>You have options at Table 36562 Table!.
Kat_08 folds.
Ribbo calls [$18].
GVthedruid folds.
fastej folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, 4s, Qc ]
Ribbo checks.
>You have options at Table 36723 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36562 Table!.
Koemjing bets [$51.30].
Ribbo raises [$205.20].
Koemjing is all-In [$326.70]
Ribbo calls [$172.80].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
Ribbo shows [ Qs, 3s, Qd, 5c ] three of a kind, queens.
Koemjing doesn't show [ Ad, As, 5s, 7c ] a pair of aces.
Ribbo wins $807 from the main pot with three of a kind, queens.
There was no qualifying low hand.

As already stated, people are stupid. Just check raise them right off the flop.

[mxyzptlk]

two points:

1) It is well-known that tricky play doesn't pay off against donks.

2) If you are trying to say that a CR on the flop is the right play with top set HU, yes, of course. With a field of 6, low draw, and two flush showing, good luck in the long term.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
two points:

1) It is well-known that tricky play doesn't pay off against donks.

2) If you are trying to say that a CR on the flop is the right play with top set HU, yes, of course. With a field of 6, low draw, and two flush showing, good luck in the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's absolutely fine. If 6 people want to call my check raise, then that's earning me even more money than 1 person doing it. I will happily shove top set against 1 person or against 9 people. It's a money earner either way.

[sy_or_bust]

[ QUOTE ]

2) If you are trying to say that a CR on the flop is the right play with top set HU, yes, of course. With a field of 6, low draw, and two flush showing, good luck in the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do understand that a set is typically the best high hand and the best high draw on the flop, right? Let's say I have top set on a 2-flush, 2-low board, and I put in a huge checkraise. If I get called by the flush draw and the nut low draw, I make money. If others want to tag along with weaker draws, that's terrific. I have the best high hand with 7 ~nut outs to the turn and 10 to the river, and I can scoop.

[Ribbo]

I hear full houses win a lot of money in this game.....

[Wintermute]

[ QUOTE ]
two points:

1) It is well-known that tricky play doesn't pay off against donks.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[ QUOTE ]
2) If you are trying to say that a CR on the flop is the right play with top set HU, yes, of course. With a field of 6, low draw, and two flush showing, good luck in the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the complete opposite.


BTW, nice avatar. The white box with a red X through it captures your personality perfectly.

[mxyzptlk]

What I am worried about here is schooling, where the outs of the other fish collude to outdraw me. Keep in mind I am talking about just having top set with a one way hand.

Here is one example, where I tried to be reasonable about some garbage hands a bunch of fish might tag along with:

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing 8s Kh 4h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
7s Kc Tc Kd 126 400 266 0 0 0 0 0.395
Ac 8c 8d 7d 31 45 621 0 99 330 6 0.125
9d 4d Ah 5h 197 221 445 0 371 36 6 0.480


You really want to get your all your money in there being a 40-60 dog against the other two players?

Lets make it a little worse, where you are a 25-75 dog:

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 528 enumerated boards containing 8s Kh 4h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
7s Kc Tc Kd 64 199 329 0 0 0 0 0.249
Ac 8c 8d 7d 20 32 490 6 159 192 6 0.200
9d 4d Ah Th 33 174 354 0 0 81 6 0.199
5s 4s 7c 6h 42 117 405 6 243 165 0 0.352

All these hands are highly incorrect to call a flop CR, however if you get a one call, the idiots may follow.

To make my point clear, I am talking about an unraised pot with the large field. If middle set is a donk, he'll bet the pot for you, and you can raise the turn if you like the card and the action. Narrow the field to 3 or so, I like the CR play more.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
What I am worried about here is schooling, where the outs of the other fish collude to outdraw me. Keep in mind I am talking about just having top set with a one way hand.

Here is one example, where I tried to be reasonable about some garbage hands a bunch of fish might tag along with:

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing 8s Kh 4h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
7s Kc Tc Kd 126 400 266 0 0 0 0 0.395
Ac 8c 8d 7d 31 45 621 0 99 330 6 0.125
9d 4d Ah 5h 197 221 445 0 371 36 6 0.480


You really want to get your all your money in there being a 40-60 dog against the other two players?

[/ QUOTE ]
YES! OF COURSE YOU WOULD! Because you're putting in 33% of the money to win 40% of the time. Why the hell wouldn't you want to?
[ QUOTE ]

Lets make it a little worse, where you are a 25-75 dog:

Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 528 enumerated boards containing 8s Kh 4h
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
7s Kc Tc Kd 64 199 329 0 0 0 0 0.249
Ac 8c 8d 7d 20 32 490 6 159 192 6 0.200
9d 4d Ah Th 33 174 354 0 0 81 6 0.199
5s 4s 7c 6h 42 117 405 6 243 165 0 0.352

All these hands are highly incorrect to call a flop CR, however if you get a one call, the idiots may follow.

To make my point clear, I am talking about an unraised pot with the large field. If middle set is a donk, he'll bet the pot for you, and you can raise the turn if you like the card and the action. Narrow the field to 3 or so, I like the CR play more.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a donkey. Even when you fix the odds to try and make a point, you fail miserably. You tie up every single full house draw on the flop, which WILL NOT HAPPEN, then claim it's bad and fail to notice that even with this extreme set of circumstances YOU ARE PUTTING IN 25% OF THE CHIPS AND WINNING 25% OF THE POT!!!!! YOU'RE NOT EVEN LOSING MONEY ON THE HAND!!!!!

As I tried to explain to you earlier. Shoving top set against ANY NUMBER OF PLAYERS is absolutely fine with me, because you're not going to lose money.