75s

Nietzsche · #1 08-15-2005, 06:15 AM

This is PP 10/20 6 max. I posted it in the HUSH forum but it didn't generate discussion, so I thought I'd try here.

BB is somewhat more aggressive than the average player. Nothing extreme though.

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero?</font>

What is your action and why?

I think it is worth trying to induce a bluff as I can't see many worse hand calling me. Especially now that I have picked up additional outs.

DeeJ · #2 08-15-2005, 06:20 AM

I'd probably fold this preflop, but as you played it I'd bet the turn to represent the Ace and you still have outs if someone raises you.

oreogod · #3 08-15-2005, 06:24 AM

i think this is a pretty solid bet situation. As long as you know what to do when you are played back at.

EDIT: just saw that u picked up a flush draw on the turn as well. So disregard that last comment. Still a bet.

DcifrThs · #4 08-15-2005, 01:10 PM

i dont see many worse hands that will fold if you bet, but that you dont want to give a free card to.

like JT etc...those hands have overs to your 7 but i dont think a check will ever "cost the pot" for you here. those hands that call are probably the flush draw or the ace in the hands of the BB.

since MP limped its less likely that he has an ace. he may have a 7 w/ a better kicker but combinatorically thats less likely.

that being said though, this is a fairly small pot. if they DO have a hand that does not have the odds to call and they do you should allow them to make mistakes.

you have at the very very least (assuming no higher diamond draw out there ) 13 outs. plenty of equity to bet and call a raise.

you have to give your opponents an opportunity to make a mistake.

bet the turn.
Barron

Turning Stone Pro · #5 08-15-2005, 01:12 PM

Bet, it's not close. preflop is an easy call, by the way.

TSP

MrMonkey · #6 08-15-2005, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet, it's not close

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this, you have more than enough outs to justify a semi-bluff, plus he might fold a hand like a better 7 or maybe 88/99, plus he probably has overcards and you are often just winning here. Easy bet.

[ QUOTE ]
preflop is an easy call, by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't agree with this at all. Shorthanded small suited connected cards are 100% garbage. Especially here where you have no chance of winning the blinds since there's a limp. I see no value in raising pf unless your opponents are super super weak and likely to just check-fold 75% of flops to you, and for that matter, the pot is so small, I really see no reason to call. More often than not you're gonna look dumb for paying off 9Q who hits a 9 when you pair the 5 or 7.

6-handed I'd dump the 57s in most spots but be more likely to raise something like KTo that at least can make winning pairs. WIth short handed pots what good is being suited and connected when you have 7 high on msot flops?

DeeJ · #7 08-15-2005, 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
preflop is an easy call, by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a bit closer than 'easy', but I reckon you're right (it's a call).

You are getting immediate 5:1 odds yes but if it's raised behind you are probably only getting 5:1.5 or just over 3:1. Make it 4:1 on average and you need pot equity of 20%, which is usually OK unless you're facing an overpair, which is unlikely.

eg
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7d 5d 377970 27.57 985958 71.93 6826 0.50 0.277
8d Kh 463631 33.82 900297 65.68 6826 0.50 0.340
Qs Jd 522327 38.11 841601 61.40 6826 0.50 0.383

My original thought that I'd probably fold preflop comes from mostly playing shorthanded late in SNGs [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] rather than in ring situations.

stabn · #8 08-15-2005, 08:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hero completes

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't think 5-1 is enough to complete w/ this from the small blind?

MrMonkey · #9 08-15-2005, 10:15 PM

oops I misread the hand, my bad, I thought Hero was calling pf against one limp. I wouldn't be a big fan of that, yeah might as well complete from the small blind.

Nietzsche · #10 08-16-2005, 05:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
that being said though, this is a fairly small pot. if they DO have a hand that does not have the odds to call and they do you should allow them to make mistakes.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is exactly the reason I thought a check would be good here. 10/20 shorthanded is pretty aggressive IMO and bet flop check turn is a sign of great weakness so I thought there was a good chance he would bet with nothing or very little whereas he would fold almost all hands that I beat if I had bet (which I did, and he folded - perhaps I am being resultoriented...).

If I check I am not too afraid of giving him a free card as the pot is small and he is in the BB and didn't raise. So there is a good chance at last one of his cards is smaller than a 7 so on average he has very few outs if he is behind. Often only 2. If I am behind I avoid getting raised and I have quite a few outs to catch up.