Fish raises and re-raises me when I have top-2-pr

#1 08-13-2005, 05:42 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP2 caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks.

River: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

When someone with 52% VP$IP and 0.5 total aggression raises and re-raises me, I assume a set or two-pair. The two-pairs seem unlikely, but he played every suited hand, so you never know.

I think I should have bet the turn anyways since it made someone drawing to a single diamond see it cheaply. I also might have already been in the lead against the fish capping with J8 or K8. And even if I wasn't, I had 4 outs to fill up to a boat.

I was very confused when the fish checked the turn. He could have been afraid his set or two-pair was beaten by a flush and didn't want to be check-raised. That or he was on a draw and got to see a "free card" (I still 3-bet him on the flop which nullifies the "free" or even cheaper part).

And when I saw what the fish turned over, I was even MORE surprised. Maybe he misread the board or something... for fun, guess what range of hands he had here.

Online247 · #2 08-13-2005, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP2 caps, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks.

River: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

When someone with 0.5 total aggression

[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here. Make better reads and don't depend on pokertracker stats.

sirana · #3 08-13-2005, 06:01 PM

[Lecture Mode on] the total aggression number normally isn't good enough to base your decision upon (espescially with limited sample size). try to get "real", if not, just play it like you hadn't had any reads. don't overestimate Pockertracker reads [Lecture Mode off]

the betting by MP2 is indeed pretty bizarre, but I think you played it right.
after the flop cap I check the turn, and am flabbergasted (I love this word...) when he checks.
river bet is easy...

#4 08-13-2005, 06:05 PM

Okay... so after playing 50 hands at a table with someone who almost never raised and never re-raised decides to cap on the flop, what do you put him on?

I use whatever information is available to me. This one screamed out check-call to me... until he checked the turn and I made a boat on the river. I'd have bet the river almost regardless of the card that hit.

#5 08-13-2005, 06:07 PM

If it helps any, his aggression on flop, turn, and river, all were between 0.4-0.6. No massive aggression on any street - another loose-passive player.

Online247 · #6 08-13-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay... so after playing 50 hands at a table with someone who almost never raised and never re-raised decides to cap on the flop, what do you put him on?

[/ QUOTE ]

See that's a lot more helpful than saying a donk has this total aggresion... blah blah.

I think you played this fine. I don't lead the turn scare card into 3 players espcially when BB tags along in the face of bets, raises, and reraises.

His aggresion on the flop screams "I can beat TP" so I'd say he had two pair or maybe just a really really strong draw like OESD and a flush draw (we can assume this before we saw the turn action).

But most likely villian had two pair and possibly a set of 8s.

sirana · #7 08-13-2005, 06:19 PM

After Flop I'd put him on: 88, KJ, J8, K8 (KK, JJ if h likes to get tricky and slowplay preflop (which you find surprisingly often)) edit: AK and KQ are rare possibilities, too

After the turn I'd put him on: any two card, including jokers, the complete tarot deck and Star Wars collectibles

#8 08-13-2005, 06:29 PM

fish limped with aces or AK . . . . ?

Aaron W. · #9 08-13-2005, 06:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If it helps any, his aggression on flop, turn, and river, all were between 0.4-0.6. No massive aggression on any street - another loose-passive player.

[/ QUOTE ]

After 50 hands, all of those numbers as basically meaningless, especially the turn and river numbers.

#10 08-13-2005, 06:53 PM

hahaha exactly what I was thinking! Especially after the turn...

He ended up having Q9. He must have misread the board and thought he had a straight or someone else played the hand for him or something. He raised and re-raised a naked gutshot draw. No overcards, no flush draw, no backdoor draws even! Just a gutshot. And then he checks the turn when he completes the straight? It just baffles me.