Theoretical backdoor draw PLO question

[nicky g]

Just pondering:

Are there any PLO situations where it'd be right to call a pot bet on the flop with no hand and no draw, but the possibility of a very strong draw given the right turn card?

For instance lets say you had K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
and the flop came
j [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

You have essentially nothing, but a high heart or spade could easily give you a pair, big wrap and (non-nut) flush draw - eg the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] would give you (I think) a 17-out straight draw and the 2nd nut flush draw, the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] would give you a 9-out nut straight draw and the nut flush draw etc. Are there any situations in which you should play on and if so, what would they be (position, depth of money, number of players involved etc), and how might you play it?
Sorry if this an obvious yes or no.

[ohnonotagain]

I would say you cannot call a pot-sized bet to make a back door hand if the ONLY way you are going to be able to win is by making the back door draw. This is probably true even if you are sure that the other player will pay you on the end, which he very well may not do. And furthermore, you have to be aware that you may very well have to call another pot sized bet on 4th street.

But you might consider it if you thought that your runner-runner chances PLUS your bluffing possibilities merited a call.

Let's say that in the example you give it is heads up and you have position. You might think that if a small card (3, 4, or 5) comes you will be able successfully to represent a straight, or you might think that the bettor just has aces and will give you credit for top two if a K or Q or T comes on 4th street (which incidentally would also improve your hand a lot).

If you called in that kind of situation, you wouldn't be that far from just plain planning to bluff, but giving yourself some extra outs with the backdoor draws, where cards which you might well bluff on (K, Q, T) actually do give you quite a decent hand.

Note also that the money has to be deep for this kind of this; no point doing it if there is not enough money to allow you to bluff on 4th street and maybe get paid on 5th.

Oh no!! Not again!

[gdaily]

Hi,

A couple of things must work for you:

a) The money has to be very deep - you will have to call a pot-sized bet on 4:th street as well, and you self must be able to make a pot-sized bet on the river.

b) You must have position over your opponent - you have to act after him/her. By this you have greater chance of getting your pot-sized bet on the river payed off.

c) It helps alot to have at least one of the backdosrs for the nut-flush

d) Your opponent must be agressive (so you have a slim chanse that only one pair can make a winner for you, if he is betting his wrap-around for the low straights. He can not be the tight one, he also need to pay you off, right.

Play the players more than you play your cards