Speculative loose passive hand (400nl 6max)

thatpfunk · #1 08-11-2005, 05:04 PM

Villian is bad. He holds on to cards too long and overplays his hands. He also kind of has it out for me because I cracked his J's earlier in the day and he complained profusely in the chatbox.

Preflop is about as sketchy as it gets, however, situationally, I don't have a problem making this call and getting in a touchy situation.

The riverbet was bigger than I had hoped/anticipated, but in the end made it more of a clear cut call, imo.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Button ($914.60)
Hero ($591.80)
BB ($324.50)
UTG ($395.60)
MP ($409.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG raises to $15, MP calls $15, 1 fold, Hero (poster) calls $13, 1 fold.

Flop: ($49) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $30, MP folds, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($109) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: ($109) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $80, Hero calls $80.

Final Pot: $269

Bukem_ · #2 08-11-2005, 05:10 PM

Post flop if fine.

Preflop you seem to be enjoying the fact that you are in the worst position possible vs an unbluffable player with crappy cards. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

thatpfunk · #3 08-11-2005, 05:20 PM

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Preflop you seem to be enjoying the fact that you are in the worst position possible vs an unbluffable player with crappy cards.

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I dunno, maybe it is just me but I would rather have 85o than AJ against this player.

Also, fwiw, his raising range is average and not indicative of the rest of his game.

#4 08-11-2005, 05:25 PM

You checked the turn to induce a bluff, correct? Then it's a must call.

Preflop though: does this hand really even qualify as a speculative hand?

#5 08-11-2005, 05:25 PM

I don't understand the pre-flop call at all. What was your plan?

On the flop: What leads you to believe that your pair of 8s is any good. His action just screams overpair. You called a pot-sized bet with a gutshot. If you put him on an overpair you still only have 9 outs, at best(three 5s two 8s and four 7s). What hand range did you put him on?

On the turn: What did you hope to get by calling. IMO you should either raise to try to take the pot from him or fold.

On the river, he either made a better two pair, trips, or a boat. You can't beat anything other than a bluff. Even if he was betting with second pair, he just beat you.

No offense, but given what you've told us I don't like the play on any street in this hand.

Bukem_ · #6 08-11-2005, 05:31 PM

I'd rather have it connected or one gapped, or suited. Something else going for it.

If I could take away the pot from him when I wanted to, then it wouldn't really matter. But that doesn't seem like its the case.

Maybe I'm thinking of different opponent than you are. I assume he plays lots of hands, comes in for a raise with most of them, or try to bloat the pot preflop if possible, because well its fun. Then he refuses to fold.

I tend to play less speculative hands vs him, more big broadways and pp, and try to have position as much as possible. He is actually gonna dig away at me if I'm calling with sc hoping to flop big vs his huge hand range.

thatpfunk · #7 08-11-2005, 05:37 PM

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Maybe I'm thinking of different opponent than you are. I assume he plays lots of hands, comes in for a raise with most of them, or try to bloat the pot preflop if possible, because well its fun. Then he refuses to fold.

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I think I should make an addendum about the player profile, I may have led some of you astray.

He is not a horrible player, just bad. Preflop he is a too loose, but in no way is he a maniac. He is not a maniacal raiser either; I expect him to have decent cards, it is just that once he has the cards he dislikes letting go of them. He is not crazy aggressive postflop either, but if he likes his hand he will push it relatively hard.

[ QUOTE ]
He is actually gonna dig away at me if I'm calling with sc hoping to flop big vs his huge hand range.

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This is the reason I made such a weak PF call. His range is not very big and I have little doubt if I flop a strong hand I can take his stack. My hand wasn't exactly strong, so I thought it turned to a fun little hand to post.

Sorry for the opponent confusion.

Sponger15SB · #8 08-11-2005, 07:28 PM

C'mon, be honest. This is one of those hands where you are actually the villian, and you are pissed that he called your macking river bet with nothing against your unimproved AK

SideCash · #9 08-11-2005, 07:43 PM

I like your play here if you have seen him make a few moves. If he is the kind of player that will try to buy the pot when you show weakness then great play. However, if he had overs he's not as bad as you think he is... He kept the pot small and got you to call the river bet. What did he have btw?

thatpfunk · #10 08-11-2005, 08:05 PM

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C'mon, be honest. This is one of those hands where you are actually the villian, and you are pissed that he called your macking river bet with nothing against your unimproved AK

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You of all people should know I play crappy hands like this. Plus my river bet against a thinking player would look like it was for value, not like I was trying to push someone off the pot. He has to price me in for my crappy flush draw to call out of curiosity, no? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]