I Hate Small Overpairs

Jazza · #1 08-09-2005, 02:20 AM

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($97.90)
Hero ($378.75)
MP1 ($39)
MP2 ($109.85)
CO ($45.35)
Button ($57.40)
SB ($45.95)
BB ($87.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls $1, 2 folds, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($5) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
eviekitty checks, is checks, BB checks, Hero bets $5, CO folds, Button raises to $10, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $25, Hero ?

lead turn? 3-bet flop? check-fold turn?

villian is 22/8 after like 50 hands, seems average

NYCNative · #2 08-09-2005, 02:23 AM

I raise TT preflop to avoid problems like this, even out of position. However as you played it, you are playing TT for set value and you didn't hit your set. The stab with no overs was fine but you should have folded to the minraise and you should definitely fold the turn.

#3 08-09-2005, 08:31 AM

First attemt to comment a hand here on 2+2 so feel free to tear my thoughts appart and shuffle them down my throat.
Trying to put myself in his position. In a four way pot I consider it unlikely for a decent player to raise with just a pair of 6's. I find it a lot more likely for him to be on top pair.
Your check on the turn gives a sign of weekness and his huge bet there screems that he wants you out of the hand. Of course depending on your read (could he be slowplaying overpairs?).. but perhaps, if you have the guts, push could be a good idea.

fuzzbox · #4 08-09-2005, 09:32 AM

Lead turn is good, if he calls he is probably on a draw.
He can raise your bet with a lot of things.

Of course, he probably has 99.

If you lead turn, then you fold a raise.

fuzzbox · #5 08-09-2005, 09:32 AM

how does raising it pf avoid the problem ? You just immediately give it up when raised ?

Finite_Risk · #6 08-09-2005, 10:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
but you should have folded to the minraise

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Would a draw not raise here? Someone who appears "average" with PFR of 8% is likely raising any pair higher than hero's pre-flop (and likely 9's too)

If he does have a set he is not exactly giving a drawing hand hugely improper odds (20 in pot, 5 to call).

Plus, if he filled up on the turn why would he push so hard?

zepmetal · #7 08-09-2005, 10:21 AM

Hmm. I dont mind C/Ring the turn. Villain doesnt have much money, and I think his bet is unlikely a boat. He should want to extract more from a flush draw with a boat, but tru, I've seen some low limit players make these large bets with small stacks when they have the nuts (seems nuts to me). A9 is a likely enough holding, and villain could definitelybe drawing, maybe to more than 9 outs, but if so, youve gotta stay in the pot. A hand thta concerns me is A6s. He could easily limp, minraise for the free card on the flop cuz hes got a pair and flush draw, hits a money card on the turn, and bets it big. Again, his turn bet is big, and he shouldnt have much to worry about. Did he bet the exact pot, as in press "bet-pot"?

I dont think I like pushing the flop since overcard flush draw has good odds at thta point, but when a non-club hits the turn, i would probably lead out ($20) and call a raise.

xcrack999 · #8 08-09-2005, 11:54 AM

I like leading turn and folding to a raise. If you get called and no flush card comes on the river, you can decide between blocking bet or check-call based on your read. If a flush card comes, cry.

Jazza · #9 08-09-2005, 03:16 PM

yeah, he hit the 'bet-pot' button

and for all who are suggesting lead turn and fold to a raise, be aware that after i lead for say 20 and he goes all in, i am getting over 4:1 on my call if my math is right

xcrack999 · #10 08-10-2005, 12:09 PM

Bet 15, and if he pushes all-in, you're getting 3:1 on your call, and your hand isnt good 25% of the time there when a 22/8 comes over the top.