Donk move or decent play?

NYCNative · #1 08-07-2005, 09:28 AM

Villain has been a bit of a TAG - 13% VP$IP, 7% PFR, but only 69 hands, none of them huge pots and he's shown down just four of them.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (8 handed) converter

MP1 ($48.50)
MP2 ($30.40)
CO ($26.65)
Button ($24.15)
SB ($15.90)
BB ($59.50)
UTG ($62.30)
Hero ($53.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, 5 folds, BB raises to $2.5, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($5.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($5.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25.

River: ($15.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $15.75, Hero calls $15.75.

Final Pot: $47.25

chumsferd · #2 08-07-2005, 10:04 AM

A few of thoughts...

1) I think limping from EP with 6/7s is marginal at this level of play. You really want position to play it profitably, and most often you won't have that when you are playing from EP. You can get away with a little more a higher limits (I think people call is shania on this board... but you don't really have to worry about too much in these games), but even then I don't think you want to routinely be making this play. Others may disagree...

2) The turn call is iffy unless he's a bit of a showdown muppet. I mean, if a flush card comes, do you think this guy pays you off? what do you think his hand range is? The 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] are the two real money spinning outs for you.

3) I think you raise can this river. BB is very tight, he's hardly going to be raising out of the BB with QJ ot J7. I would raise and take any action he gives me because I think KK is sitting pretty high in his list of holdings.

taran · #3 08-07-2005, 10:07 AM

Fold pre-flop, fold turn, put him all in on river.
Why are you afraid that he has qj?

Rockatansky · #4 08-07-2005, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain has been a bit of a TAG - 13% VP$IP, 7% PFR, but only 69 hands, none of them huge pots and he's shown down just four of them.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (8 handed) converter

MP1 ($48.50)
MP2 ($30.40)
CO ($26.65)
Button ($24.15)
SB ($15.90)
BB ($59.50)
UTG ($62.30)
Hero ($53.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, 5 folds, BB raises to $2.5, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($5.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($5.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $5.25, Hero calls $5.25.

River: ($15.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $15.75, Hero calls $15.75.

Final Pot: $47.25

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps misplayed on all streets.

The pre-flop limp is fine if table conditions are favorable. That is, if the table is loose-passive pre-flop, and the players are bad post-flop, then limping 7-6s in EP is a fine play. However, calling a TAG's pre-flop raise in a heads-up pot is pretty bad. If the guy is truly a TAG, the implied odds just aren't there.

On the flop, why not semi-bluff and try to take the pot away? This is exactly the kind of player you want to make this move against.

On the turn, you're not getting odds to peel one off. If you have a tight image (and since villain is tight), this wouldn't be a bad spot for a semi-bluff pot-sized raise.

On the river, not shoveling as much money as possible into the pot is a crime. Villain clearly likes his hand, but there's no reason to put him on Q-J.

amoeba · #5 08-07-2005, 11:54 AM

I don't like the preflop call if you are going to be passive when he checks that flop to you. the majority of times you win here is by making him fold his hand.

remember you only catch a flush draw 1 in 8 times or so.

I think check behind on the flop is good if you are sure this check means KK or AA and not QQ JJ.

foldem · #6 08-07-2005, 11:58 AM

Preflop limp is iffy. Play these type hands in LP and come in for a raise. Checking behind on the flop is good since you don't want to get check raised off of your draw.

Calling the turn is ok, you are a 3.5-1 dog against a set on the turn. So you only have to make up about $8 on the river when you hit. However there are some reverse implied odds if a board pairing diamond hits and the BB has KK. Not raising the river after the 9 hits is criminal.

SparrowHawk · #7 08-07-2005, 12:14 PM

I agree with the posters. SC plays best from late postion, in a multi-way pot. I wouldn't have called the original pre-flop raise unless this player was LA or LP where you can catch a hand on him and snap. Even then I don't recommend suited connectors from early positions.

FLOP. I would have certainly bet out a pot sized bet here. If he has missed his hand, he probably won't call and you take it down. If he calls you still have outs. Semi-bluff

TURN: You have 12 outs and your not drawing to the best hand. You are getting 2 to 1 on your money for the call. As posted earlier...what are you imnplied odds if you flush card hits? Will he pay off?

I would have folded. I would certainly have put him on a big hand after he checked the flop and bet the 10 on the turn. The flop check, in this situation, appears to be a check raise waiting to happen. He is TAG. I agree he probably has a big holding.

RIVER: I would have raised for value. He is not playing qj. The way the hand plays tells you that. PUSH. If he thinks he is beat...he might make a crying call. If he thinks he has the best hand...he will certainly call. You maximize the hand.