I am so proud of myself - Page 6

#51 08-06-2005, 11:13 AM

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, Hero (poster) checks, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (9 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11 BB

I'm a new limit player, but i think the biggest mistake you made in that hand was not reraising that hand. By not raising, your allowing the SB to play at a much cheaper price(not isolating the pot with a flush draw, who does that when you probably have the best hand?)Turn bet was standard, and the river i think needs to be called. Its 11-1 bets man, its a safe call. Can't believe you didn't reraise the flop. damn.

#52 08-06-2005, 11:33 AM

Though I don't play shorthanded games, I'd say raise preflop.
Raise the flop.
Raise the turn.
Without a read: call the river (too many ppl love to bluff here).

I think being proud of your play here is a bit results orientated.

ismisus · #53 08-06-2005, 12:03 PM

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You talk about your NL tourney experience, so I ask you:
If the pot was t1100 to you on the river, and you had to call t100, closing the action with top two pair, would you fold and not feel dirty about it?

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In a tourney I would probably raise to 400 in this spot. Weak bets on the river in no limit usually mean subpar hand depending on the quality of the player and board. Some people like to weak lead the river with their flush, so I can raise them. If they re-raise my 400 bet, then I just give them credit and let it go. There's a lot of more trapping going on in no limit, the game is much less about pot odds, since most players don't give you the odds to chase or call.

I still feel in mind I was more than 11 to 1 underdog...

ismisus · #54 08-06-2005, 12:13 PM

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They'll call me down with any pair

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THis is true in 50 cent/ 1 dollar hold em. There's no bluffing.

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I don't KNOW if they're calling me with 3rd pair or nothing at all.

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Correct, I've seen many flop calls with absolutly nothing.

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The SB called two bets cold quickly on the turn. I knew he was on a draw right then

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This is different. I haven't seen too many players calling two bets so quickly with nothing. From no limit tournament poker, I learned that quick calls usually means draws. If he had a pair, he would think about it, and then probably still call. However he knew exactly what he needed and wanted to get there as quickly as possible, hence the quick call. Then when got there, he instantly bet out. Sure when you read the hand history, I would say this is an awful fold as well, but if you see all the action leading up to it many smart players would do the same. In that situation I would probably call if there was 20 BB in it.

ismisus · #55 08-06-2005, 12:16 PM

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I think by this point in this thread it should be clear to everyone that the original post had nothing to do with improving the poster's micro-limit game. I don't really know what it WAS for, but it's pretty obvious what it WASN'T for.

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Initially, I was showing what read I made, which I thought was impressive. Later on I got some good advice, on raising pre-flop. I'd say raising the turn instead of flop is pretty close. The river play is rare, and I never make it, this is not a habit, since I don't make such good reads all the time.

Harv72b · #56 08-06-2005, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In a tourney I would probably raise to 400 in this spot. Weak bets on the river in no limit usually mean subpar hand depending on the quality of the player and board. Some people like to weak lead the river with their flush, so I can raise them. If they re-raise my 400 bet, then I just give them credit and let it go. There's a lot of more trapping going on in no limit, the game is much less about pot odds, since most players don't give you the odds to chase or call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is the value in raising 1/3 of the pot on the river, when a bluff just folds to your raise and you feel obligated to fold to a reraise?

Seriously, and I'm not trying to pick on you, but you need to rethink many of your poker strategies. SSH would help, as would TOP and HOH (for your NL tournament play). Raising the river in spots like this is terrible, and even worse if you plan to fold every time your opponent reraises you.

And by the way, NL play is still just as much about pot odds. More so, since your implied odds are generally much higher than in limit.

Greg J · #57 08-06-2005, 03:32 PM

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With a possible flush draw out there, you HAVE to raise the flop. I suppose they would have called anyway but you gotta charge them.

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I was planning to charge on the turn. Is this flawed logic?

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You should NOT raise the flop to "charge the flush draw." Flush draws actually benefit when you bet this flop (most of the time)! You bet/raise the flop for VALUE.

TomBrooks · #58 08-06-2005, 05:07 PM

PREFlOP: DONT POST UTG.

PREFLOP: OPEN RAISE.

FLOP: RAISE

RIVER: MAYBE A GOOD FOLD. This had was played so wrong earlier though, and it would have played differently if you played it differently, I'm not sure.

damaniac · #59 08-06-2005, 05:15 PM

FWIW, the flush draw should have less than 1/3 equity given that hero has two pair and will fill up a not insignificant portion of the time (not to mention it kills villain's runner-runner two pair outs, not that those add much). I like waiting if you expect the bettor to continue most of the time, it does a great job on cutting down on everyone's effective odds. Against LP's I usually just raise the flop though, they get scared too much on the turn to bet.