I am so proud of myself

[Harv72b]

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Ok fair enough. Tell me how you would play this hand
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: 4 BB

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Hero raises the flop to isolate (you do have an overcard + backdoor to the nut flush), bets the turn if checked to (folding to a c/r), and checks through the river UI.

[ismisus]

Ok I understand. I don't "give up" on every single pot. Its impossible to outplay 50 cent/1 dollar players you have to show some hands. After they realize that you're showing down hands, they won't be betting/calling me constantly, which allows me to outplay them later.

I wish I had rock image, its easily shed by me showing down 5 3 one time.

I am proud of the fold, not only beacause it was correct, but I was thinking it was almost 100% correct. Like I said earlier, I do not make this fold often, if at all. I was just very sure that he had it, and thats why I posted the hand in the first place.

[Aaron W.]

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I don't have one of those hand % generators in front of me now, but A8s vs. Jx and 94s is a nice favorite, I'm sure.

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I agree it is a favorite. Like one of the posters said I have no reads (except that the usual player won't stop betting unless someone raises them).

As 8s 42.26%
Kd Jd 38.29%
9d 4d 19.00%

Ok here they are. Lets say the flop missed everybody, this is where I get outplayed due to my lack of reads.

Qc 7d 3s
I proceed with my continuation bet. KJd will probably call me (wow I got a backdoor flush). Sometimes I even see 94d call me in that spot too.

turn 6c. Now I check. KJd decides to take a shot at this pot by betting. Now eventhough I have the best hand, I can't call nor can I bet this hand! I do not know where I am!

So I don't consider myself a 42% fav, little bit less. So with their unpredictable, but still donkified actions, they're actually the favorite. And until I can figure their donkified ways, I just can't raise with hands that have little edge statistically

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Don't be results-oriented. The actual hands they had this time have very irrelevant when discussing the merits of the preflop raise.

Bet-fold the turn.

[ismisus]

Not only do I have a huge confidence in my game (look at my screen name). I do beat the game. Thanks for all the helpful comments.

I am just not sure that raising on the flop/bettign the turn with A8s is profitable with Q 7 3 6 board. Are you sure this play is EV+ guys?

When I started out, I was doing this often, but then I found myself getting called down by a 7 or 3 way too often

[Chuckles1248]

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Its impossible to outplay 50 cent/1 dollar players you have to show some hands. After they realize that you're showing down hands, they won't be betting/calling me constantly, which allows me to outplay them later.

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Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

You must not understand at all what "outplaying" means. Outplaying does not mean making them fold when they have the best hand, it means not making mistakes while your opponents are making mistakes. That could mean betting so they fold with the best hand, but it could also mean betting so they call with a worse hand. If it was impossible to outplay .5/1 players, no smart player would play the game, because it would be unbeatable.

It is not a bad thing if they call with everything and never fold, that is amazing for you.

[ismisus]

well i figured players have an edge in the game, because opponnets pay off everytime you have a hand. Not because you are betting the turn with a hand thats an underdog most of the time with that board and action.

[bottomset]

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Look at this preflop check and look at this flop call. Paying off the river is a small mistake relative to these.

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Should I be raising A8s? I don't like to play too aggressive with marginal hands pre-flop versus loose calling stations, since most of the time I need to hit the flop in order to proceed. I only raise marginal hands when people are tighter, and therefore my raise will yield a heads up pot.

The flop call was meant for me to yield more money.
1. The flop bettor will for sure bet on the turn, but he might not call on the turn
2. I will get .5BB more from the bettor if I raise on the turn
3. I don't want to chase out the 3rd guy who might be holding any pair, and is virtually drawing dead

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A8s isn't a marginal hand, its a pretty good one

the .5/1 players often do't follow up on the turn, though waiting isn't bad

so raise preflop and call the river and its good

[Chuckles1248]

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well i figured players have an edge in the game, because opponnets pay off everytime you have a hand. Not because you are betting the turn with a hand thats an underdog most of the time with that board and action.

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What makes you think you are an underdog most of the time in the hypothetical hand you're talking about? Your opponents have shown you no strength, and your average .5/1 player will call the flop with a wide range of hands, including plenty of non-paired ones. Also, because of pot odds, your hand doesn't have to be good even a majority of the time, it only has to be good more than 1 time in every 5 for that bet to be profitable.

[Dave G.]

Awful fold.

You have top two pair, the pot is fairly big and you're closing the action. I don't see why you should be proud of yourself for this, this is terrible.

For some reason everyone seems to think flush draws are a lot more common than they actually are. Even against 2 opponents, the chance that someone is on a flush draw, and that their flush draw is the one that got completed, are very small.

If you keep looking for spots to make "good laydowns" like this, you're going to fold a lot of winners. Just don't do it. Save your pride for where it's warranted.

[BluEsiNsOuL]

From your tourney play mindset, I guess A8s is probably not as good as it is in limit ring games. BTW, I have no idea what that's like. However, if you are really "genius", you should've known that to be able to adjust is one of the key element to be sucessful in poker. If you stick to your tourney game strategy and apply it to low-limit full ring, you are wrong. You might still be able to beat it since the players are so bad, but you won't be able to obtain the maxim EV. People here have way more experience than you in low-limit, if they tell you it's wrong, it probably is.

I am very curious about your stats in 5/10.