Did I play this like crap??

[RollaJ]

***** Hand History for Game 120628808 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Thu Jul 31 21:02:45 EDT 2003
Table Card Room Table 2243 (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: roundman ( $61)
Seat 2: tbeach ( $244.35)
Seat 3: RollaJ2 ( $216.05)
Seat 4: Texasriver ( $156.95)
Seat 5: CHASSBELT ( $32.15)
Seat 6: Da_Flopster ( $101.25)
Seat 7: gatorfan5 ( $89)
Seat 8: rba2rba ( $194.30)
Seat 9: randy50 ( $100)
Seat 10: SOFTSEAT ( $100)
tbeach posts small blind (1)
RollaJ2 posts big blind (2)
randy50 posts big blind (2)
SOFTSEAT posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RollaJ2 [ Ks, Kd ]
Texasriver folds.
CHASSBELT folds.
Da_Flopster folds.
gatorfan5 folds.
rba2rba folds.
randy50 checks.
SOFTSEAT checks.
roundman calls (2)
tbeach calls (1)
RollaJ2 raises (15) to 17
randy50 folds.
SOFTSEAT folds.
roundman folds.
tbeach calls (15)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ac, Js, 4h ]
tbeach checks.
RollaJ2 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qs ]
tbeach bets (20)
RollaJ2 calls (20)
** Dealing River ** : [ Kh ]
tbeach bets (50)
RollaJ2 calls (50)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $177 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Ac Js 4h Qs Kh ]
roundman balance $59, lost $2 (folded)
tbeach balance $334.35, bet $87, collected $177, net +$90 [ Th Qc ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- Ac,Kh,Qc,Js,Th ]
RollaJ2 balance $129.05, lost $87 [ Ks Kd ] [ three of a kind, kings -- Ac,Ks,Kd,Kh,Qs ]
Texasriver balance $156.95, didn't bet (folded)
CHASSBELT balance $32.15, didn't bet (folded)
Da_Flopster balance $101.25, didn't bet (folded)
gatorfan5 balance $89, didn't bet (folded)
rba2rba balance $194.30, didn't bet (folded)
randy50 balance $98, lost $2 (folded)
SOFTSEAT balance $98, lost $2 (folded)

[tang]

I was in a similar situation last night at a NL HE game. I raised pre-flop with QQ and got called in one place (I also had position on him). I told myself I'm going to bet the pot if an Ace doesn't drop. Flop came down A rag rag. Checked to me and I checked. Turn is another rag and he bets the pot and I fold. He shows me JJ.

I think in these situations you gotta rep. AA or AK here and bet the pot. If you table image is reasonable you will win it more times than not. You let this guy draw out on you for free, and you had the best hand all along 'till that miracle river. I can't fault the call there, but you gotta play this hand strong on the flop.

[ArtVandelay]

First, please don't post hands like this; write them up in English instead. It's really annoying to parse through these things for the relevant information. Anyway, on to the hand.

Preflop is fine. On the flop, why on Earth would you check behind. This is completely your flop, and the only question in my mind is whether to bet half pot or full pot (and this was my immediate thought, not something I came up with after reading the results... which shouldn't be up yet). Remember, as much as that flop sucks for you, it looks really scary to him. He's in a really tough spot to call you on the flop out of position with an ace high board unless he also has a hand, but that certainly doesn't happen 2 times in 3 (a half pot bet only needs to win you the pot 1 time in 3). Whether half or full pot is more appropriate is entirely a function of your opponent, but if you have bet half pot with a big hand before then now is a good time to do it again. The biggest problem with a check is that it screams "Take the pot from me! I raised with a big pair, but I'm afraid of the ace and will give up if you bet." Unless you will check behind as a trap all the time, if I were the SB here I would certainly bet into you on almost any turn card even holding 72.

What is your thinking on the turn? I certainly don't like the play, but I can understand it. Folding, calling, and raising various amounts are all somewhat reasoanble plays here, but I don't think you called for the right reasons. The thing is, by checking behind on the flop you allowed your opponent to put you in a tough spot on the turn by betting.

On the river it's all about knowing your opponent, although against many online opponents you need to lay it down here. I find that when people have a big made hand but the fourth straight or flush card comes they tend to bet pretty small (for whatever stupid reason they have), and when this guy bets over half-pot I think he's looking for a call. You certainly can't try to push him off the hand, because a naked ten is the nuts.

Basically yes, I think you misplayed the hand. Calling sucks in big bet, and you did it twice in one hand. The whole thing got bad when you checked behind on the flop. You gave up a lot of information about your own hand while learning nothing about your opponents, and you ended up with two difficult decisions on the turn and river because of this. I'm of course not advocating that you bet the pot purely to gain information, but the point is that you had position, momentum, and the ability to represent a big hand. Do so.

[nicky g]

"Checked to me and I checked"

But why? If you're out of position, you have a tough decision. If you're in position and it's checked to you, you don't: you should bet - you're partly representing the (big) ace, partly betting what's probably the best hand, partly avoiding showing weakness and giving free cards (though they're aren't that many you're worried about). If you're called you have a decision on the turn, if check-raised you'll probably have to fold. But to fail to bet when checked to is really wimpy - you ahve position so take advantage of it.

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
But to fail to bet when checked to is really wimpy

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that pretty much summed it up [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

When thinking about it later, I think my biggest mistake was on the turn, not even the flop. When he bet 1/2 pot on the turn It was obviously a sign of weakness and I should have come over the top. Then as luck would have it we both hit our 2 outter on the river.........YUCK!