My 2 years

[stigmata]

EDIT: This wasn't meant to be replying to spydog, but to the flamers of Klepton.

If we are confident that someone has matured as a person and now understands and regrets the minor wrongs they have done - as Klepton does - then we have to show forgiveness.

Everybody has a past and a history, and everbody has acted in unfair and selfish ways. This is human nature. But we can grow to become better people by admitting our own flaws. Klepton has clearly exhibited this trait, and for this he is surely a better man than he once was.

The people we should be concerned with are those who never gain insight into the morality of there behaviour, or even worse, those who understand it yet still do not act on their conscience. For example, if klepton went back to stealing bikes, then I would agree with you, he can go to hell.

[MicroBob]

Interesting post and interesting responses.

we've all done stupid stuff. I'm not in the "you should be ashamed of yourself for stealing all those bikes" camp.

But you obviously have some real issues in there.
You were essentially stealing bikes to sustain your poker-addiction....which probably isn't all that different from breaking into homes to sustain your drug-habit to a certain extent.

you are probably still an addicted player....except now you just aren't a totally sucky player anymore.

I'm not even going to make too many grand judgements on that aspect either...because a lot of us 2+2'ers probably fit that description to a greater or lesser degree.




I agree with the poster who said that you probably didn't know 15% of poker when you thought you did.
Perhaps better stated as 'you only knew 15% about poker compared with how much you know NOW' or something like that.



I do have one serious nit to pick with your post:


[ QUOTE ]
my first 1500 hands of 15-30 i lost 4000. i opened up PT and literally went over every hand i played to see what i was doing wrong. aside from one hand where i bluff raised the river on a missed flush draw, i was playing perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ummm....there is no freaking way you played those 4000 hands perfectly.
In fact, i would doubt that no player EVER has played 4k hands perfectly.
EVER.


My new favorite quote that I have re-hashed on these forums a few times in the past few weeks is from Barry Greenstein who said that he makes several mistakes EVERY SESSION he plays.


Some people just mean to say that as far as their general, semi-ABC, pseudo-cookie-cutter way of playing poker is concered they were not making any significant mistakes.

Okay. I get it. You studied your p-tracker hands and weren't making any egregious errors. You made a determination that you thought you were playing pretty decently as far as you knowledge of poker was concerned and that in the long-run if you continued to play that way you would have better results.

Yup. That's fine. And a good idea to do as well.

But I've seen a handful of people around here mentioning that they 'looked over all of their hands and were playing them perfectly' and I just keep scratching my head.
It's not possible.

Besides, you probably aren't the best judge.
You are juding your hands based on your criteria of how they are supposed to be played in the first place.


Almost every player (especially losing players) thinks they play correctly.
If they didn't...they wouldn't play the way they do in the first place.

[MicroBob]

Oh yeah. I also agree with sthief on the general idea that you were a bit overly enthusiastic in pushing everyone to 'take shots'.


Based on your previous struggles I would think that you would more fully realize that a bankroll still needs to be protected.

'shot taking' is still a good idea for many people. But you are just too aggressive about it and I advise you to be VERY VERY careful.

$5k swings (or more) at the 30/60 game are not uncommon at all.


I recently encouraged a good player I know to take 'his shot' at the 30/60 game.
he's sufficiently bankrolled for it, he knows it's beatable...he was just kind of hesitant to try it out.

I told him to go for it. I knew he was smart enough to be careful.
"If you drop $5k too fast you can always cut your losses and bail-out."
I think he was going to try it anyway.
Next day he said he played off and on for a several hours...taking more frequent breaks because the constant $1k-$2k swings were something to get used to.
In his first day he finished +$10k.
Obviously he's glad he did it....but everyone knows this could just as easily gone the other way on him.


In the meanwhile...I'v been 'taking my shots' at the 10/20. Which isn't quite like the other shot-taking in that I've briefly been there before.
I've been running well and I feel like 'Super Poker-God of the Universe!!!!'
Think my 4BB/100 win-rate is sustainable there??
I sure don't..but you sure feel like you're the best poker player ever while you're going through it.

I've spent the past couple of days giving much of that win-rate back to my opponents.
It happens.
Yet another humbling lesson to my ego taught by that wacky lady named Variance.

[JPotMaster]

Honestly I didn't go any further than this

[ QUOTE ]
I started doing things I'm not proud of. I stole, a lot. Mainly bikes left unlocked at random places on campus. i'd resell em to friends for 30-40 bucks. that year i stole in excess of 40 bikes

[/ QUOTE ]

This is disgusting. While in college I had my bike and golf clubs stolen off of my porch. I probably lost about $800...all so someone like you could sell them for $30 and then waste it. This is one of the most selfish acts I can imagine. Think of all the people you hurt.

Someone wrote

[ QUOTE ]
very happy for you

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not feeling the same

[U235]

All this talk about bike stealing, I couldn't help but be reminded of one of my favorite Kids in the Hall sketches.

Here's a transcript, although it probably doesn't do it justice.

[1800GAMBLER]

Good post, good story. You need to learn from sthief09 though. Understanding variance and being humble are extremely important factors in becoming a LONG term winning player.

In your case, the utility of you winning $xk easily overweight the utility of you losing $xk, this is rarely the case for most, so just on emotional EV most should not move up.

Also, while you have studied and worked hard, you need to take a step back and thank variance; getting caught stealing bikes, finding 2+2 or winning poker hands are all random events, you ran well in all of those. Had variance taken another path you may have been in excessive debt, beaten up and arrested, life has pretty big variance.

At 2+2 we see the people who have stuided AND ran well, thus it's easy to forget about variance here; there are a lot of people who studied and didn't run well who are now forgotten and gone.

[Uppercut]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriosusly, all the people hating on the # of bikes Klepton stole need to taste a grip of reality that is isla vista. The ammount of bikes stolen is absoultely incredible. Like I have said, nobody gives a flying [censored] crap about the bikes. Everyone gets bike stolen and everyone steals bikes. The people who don't care are just stupid ass idiots who don't understand the IV scene.

PEACE.

ps. drinking rulez!!!one!!!oneeeee!ee!eee!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

How's it feel to be born with absolutely no moral compass? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[J. Sawyer]

nice story

[dankhank]

i was going to post a negative reply and thought i was being cranky because of it. then i read all the other replies. there are a lot of things to be skeptical about in this post. the full year of losing poker. the playing of 30/60 with 22k. the shot taking advice. however, you seem to play a lot of hands and now you have a padded bankroll. so maybe it will all work out for you, anyway.

the bike stories were cool. one time when i was poor the chair for my computer broke, so at 4am i walked down the street and took someone's porch chair. it was a better chair and i never got caught!

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
How's it feel to be born with absolutely no moral compass? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I've never stolen a bike even though my roomates have asked me to go on numerous runs with them.