58s every street debatable

[Niwa]

[ QUOTE ]
Dont limp with 58, dont call the preflop raise. Flop, as the hand now was played, is ok if your trying to take it on the turn, but when he pots it on the turn you haft to fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[srm80]

you have position on him, why not raise it to 35 or 40 after he bets out on the flop, so you might have the possibility of getting a free river card? if you think he is betting on unimproved AQ or AK, it does you no good to simply call with a made hand and a backdoor draw. or instead of seeing the free card, you might just bet on the turn if it is checked to you so you can take it down.

[srm80]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dont limp with 58, dont call the preflop raise. Flop, as the hand now was played, is ok if your trying to take it on the turn, but when he pots it on the turn you haft to fold it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this, if you are going to play the hand at all, come in with a raise

[runnerunner]

You can't fold the turn here. 32% equity against an overpair gives you odds to call, not even counting implied odds, which are pretty high if he goes runner-runner flush and even higher if he overbets the river when he makes two pair or three fives.

[srm80]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the turn here if you dislike money.

Contrary to common belief, I'm counting 14 outs here. 2 5's, 3 8's, 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]'s.

This leaves you at 32ish% pot equity, meaning the only reason to fold the turn would be you hating money.

Preflop is a little questionable, but I'm never going to bash someone for calling a small preflop raise on the button with an extremely deceptive hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

wouldn't a deceptive play be to just call a raise pre-flop with a big pair? by calling preflop and flop bets, he is representing a weak or a drawing hand, which is exactly what he has

[foldem]

I could easily have 55 or 33 in this spot and I am not raising a flop bet into me everytime I flop a set on a drawless board. The point of just calling the flop is that it's the cheapest way to gather information. I think raisng the flop is the worst option.

By just calling not only do I have the chance to hit one of my outs or pick up a redraw if I am behind but there is a chance that I can win the pot with a bluff if a scare card for my opponents hand comes.

[-Skeme-]

I fold turn.

[foldem]

My opponent had A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I hit an 8 on the river. He shipped his stack over to me in exchange for a bad beat story.

I think that folding on the turn is clearly a mistake considering my opponents most likely hand range is JJ-AA. Two dimes has it at:

cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8s 5s 13 29.55 31 70.45 0 0.00 0.295
As Ah 31 70.45 13 29.55 0 0.00 0.705

So I had to call 40 on the turn getting 2.25-1 as a 2.4-1 dog. Considering I was getting over 5-1 in implied odds this is a clear call in my opinion. I am still not sure about the preflop and flop play.