Playing against friends

[archcity]

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I hope to god you don't sit there and calculate pot odds and implied odds and [censored] during this game, because it's supposed to be fun.

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I'll defend the guy on this point, for some people playing good poker is fun. I picked up the game recently and enjoy reading the books and learning to play well. And that includes using those skills in friendly games with my friends. This is largely because this is my only opportunity to play real money games with real people.

On the other hand I don't get upset about bad beats (the original poster states that this isn't what got him upset), or act like I am taking it seriously.

But, leaving a game upset because you're getting made fun of is just plain stupid. That's what friends do, make fun of each other (sounds like these friends finally got the perfect opportunity to give this guy sh** for playing way too seriously). And there is no better way to guarantee being the butt of all jokes for the next year then to do what this guy did.

My advice for his friends. Next time he shows up to the game bring shades and as soon as the first hand is dealt, put them on in unison.

If I were him I would do the same thing, show up to the next game and wear shades, and laugh at yourself for doing it. Shows you know you were taking yourself too seriously and can make fun of yourself.

Two real suggestions:

Take some time to teach your friends to play good poker (if they want to) so you can have some real fun playing competitive poker (if you really don't care about the money).

Play dealers choice games. I find it hard to "turn off" my game during NLHE. I love playing dealers choice every now and again to keep it fun.

My home game is set up as a NLHE tournament, and as soon as four go out a dealers choice table starts.

[spaminator101]

man im glad i dont have freinds like you
me and my freinds play all the time and i always win but i dont care it would be easy for me to lose because theyre always pushing it
oh well, i sugjest you get a life i mean they are your best freinds [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[AngryCola]

I couldn't read most of the OP's post, because it wasn't formatted and hurt my eyes. But it seems like most of you are being a bit too hard on him.

Obviously there is a fine line when playing in home games with friends, but one shouldn't be expected not to care about the actual play or who wins. Not really caring about those things would ruin the fun of playing the game for me. If that was the case, I would rather just play something else with friends.

For me, there would be no point in playing poker at all if you weren't actually trying to play decently and win. Don't take it too seriously, though. It seems like that is exactly what the OP was doing.

At the end of the day, those types of games are about having fun. Taking things too seriously ruins a lot of the amusement. But not caring at all would ruin the fun of poker, too. As I said, it's always a fine line.

[FouTight]

I disagree. If I want to play serious cards, I go to a casino or fire up an internet room. The thought of playing serious poker with my friends is a joke. His friends are obviously the same way, and he is playing a different game then them.

It's like he's there to literally make money, if I were his friends, I wouldn't play with him.

[AngryCola]

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The thought of playing serious poker with my friends is a joke.

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See, that's the thing... what do you define as 'serious poker?' Where is the line drawn? Because if we're just throwing money around and not even playing the game, why bother? It's fun to be competitive. Most everyone I've ever been friends with would agree with that.

It's a fine line because playing aimlessly ruins the game of poker. You might as well all sit around a table and play Go Fish for money if that's all the game is about to you.

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It's like he's there to literally make money

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This is a bit different. Obviously if you just are trying to make money off your friends, the game isn't really about 'fun' to you. But here we come to that fine line business again. You probably shouldn't be seriously trying to make money off your friends, but without some actual competition, the game is pretty damn boring.

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I disagree.

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I don't mind.

[FreakyD]

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Take some time to teach your friends to play good poker (if they want to) so you can have some real fun playing competitive poker (if you really don't care about the money).

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I've recently found myself in the same situation as the OP, but slightly different and slightly worse. I've just become part of a semi-regular game -- two guys (acquaintances of my friends) who play for fun and comraderie, two good friends who are really hooked on the game but are still learning, and me. The first 2 games I sat in, I took everything -- almost $200 total between both games (not huge dough, but sizeable for a $10 buy-in).

I've won more than a few hands on the turn/river because I stayed in on drawing hands due to pot odds. (Yes, I'm a douche bag -- I calc pot odds in a $10 home game.) I've sucked in drawing hands with big pocket pairs after hitting the set on the flop. I've slow-played aces, and I've bluffed guys off of pots with crap. I do all this because 1) I'm trying to be a solid player, and 2) it's all part of the game. I want to improve my play and move up in stakes, and if I can't get it straight in a relaxed, low-pressure environment, how the hell can I do it when there's big money in the pot?

I take the game seriously everytime I play, whether it's a $2 SNG online, a $10 buy-in NLHE tourney, or a dealers' choice drunkfest. I do so because I believe you can have fun and still play well. I also have no problem taking money from my friends. Once the money's in the pot, it's up for grabs. If you don't want me trying to take it, don't put it in. I think there's 2 different ways to "care about the cash". You can care because you are competitive and, obviously, taking the cash means you're doing well. You can also care because you need to win to buy groceries or pay bills. Like the saying goes, "I hope I break even -- I could really use the cash." If you care like this, something's wrong.

However, archcity's right on target. The absolute best way to approach this situation is to take an active role in educating your friends on the finer points of the game, as long as they wish to be educated. (Some guys really only want to socialize and have a few pops, and God bless them for it. You don't want to force it on anyone.) I loaned my copy of "Harrington on Hold 'Em, Vol. 1" to the 2 guys hooked on the game and just starting out, and anyone else I play with can have it if they want it. I'm more than happy to explain my thinking to anyone at the table after the hand is over.

In the long run, having strong opponents in the game will help you improve your game, too. You won't have any misgivings about winning because you'll know you're all on equal footing. Your friends will have more fun because they're games will improve, and you'll end up with a solid regular game.

Sorry this ran so long. . .just my $0.02. Take it as you like, but I hope I made some sense.

[FouTight]

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I disagree.

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I don't mind.

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I'm glad, because this forum would suck if everyone got pissed off when they disagreed with something.

But seriously, the same group of guys I play with, we play serious games and we play social games on sundays. If it's a sunday, we know it's just for fun, and we don't even break out the chips, just use quarters and $1 bills. We borrow money off each other to play, and none of that money really ever goes away from the game, there is just a steady $100 or so that stays between us in the game, everyone has their own jars of money they bring, and everyone leaves with their jars.

When we break the chips out on saturdays, it's all business, not much talking, not much socializing, just playing.

It sounds like his friends are more similar to our sunday games, and I think he needs to realize that perhaps his friends don't appreciate when he takes it too seriously

[archcity]

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I disagree. If I want to play serious cards, I go to a casino or fire up an internet room.

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I'm curious... for those who say they dial it back in a home game with friends, how exactly do you change your game?

Looser opening hands seems about the only change you can make without actually playing "wrong". Do you actually go as far as making bad calls? Intentionally giving your money away can't be fun no matter how nice you are trying to be to your friends.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really am curious.

After thinking about it today, I realize that I should separate between serious games and friend games. However, the problem is this is the only consistant live game I can play in. If I had other games that I could play in readily, I wouldn't take this as seriously. But my reasoning behind playing at my best in this game is so that I keep a decent live game going.

I do realize that I sound like somewhat of an ass. After re-reading my original post, I don't blame some of you for jumping on me. I haven't been playing poker for very long, just about a year. But I love the game and I'm trying my best to improve as much as I can and become a solid player. It seems like if I play in my only regular live game just for fun, I'd ultimately be losing out and hurting my game.

I talked with some of my friends today (actually played heads up with one of them), and what he had to say changed my opinion of it. He told me that last night he was just excited to be beating me, because he thinks that I'm a lot better than him. As stupid as it sounds, that made me realize more of where he is coming from. Thanks for the advice guys.

[FouTight]

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I talked with some of my friends today (actually played heads up with one of them), and what he had to say changed my opinion of it. He told me that last night he was just excited to be beating me, because he thinks that I'm a lot better than him. As stupid as it sounds, that made me realize more of where he is coming from. Thanks for the advice guys.

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And this was basically my point from the beginning. It's like when you play basketball, and it's a bunch of your pathetic friends and then the one kid that played varsity and he just whoops on everyone when you are just trying to play a pick up game. Everyone would love to beat him, but usually they just don't enjoy playing with him.

As far as how I play differently in our fun games, well, we basically we play very loose, get some wild hands, but more or less just keep the conversation rolling, don't pay as much attention to the cards as each other.