AKo on the BB

OddWorld · #1 08-03-2005, 06:06 AM

Am I out of position to raise PF? For some reason, a raise here feels aquard. Would it be better to c/r the flop for info (I've heard mixed reviews on getting info with small bets on the flop). I'm not too proud with how I played this one [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
Thanks,

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

aK13 · #2 08-03-2005, 06:37 AM

For the love of god raise preflop. ALWAYS.

DeeJ · #3 08-03-2005, 06:47 AM

aquard = awkward?

Erm, yes raise PF.

On the flop I'd check-raise to try to find out where I'm at and possibly get a free card on a blank turn. Otherwise you have to make a judgement as to how likely anyone is to have a Jack (20%?) and play your odds to hit your K/A dirty outs accordingly. I think you can call the turn here but fold if it's raised behind you. On a blank river you can check-call/fold depending on how you view your opponent's agressiveness.

J_B · #4 08-03-2005, 06:49 AM

With no reads, here's what I see.

Just checking you keep the pot small - only 5.5 SB. By betting the flop no one else with two overs has odds to call (6.5 SB.) Unfortunately we get reraised - if he's a fish, I fold it - DEFINATELY fold the turn IMHO.)

If we raise if preflop, we have 11 SB giving better odds for our opponents on the flop. Not that it's matter on the flop unless someone had a PP. But then it really wouldn't matter.

We MIGHT win this by catching a K or A if our fish is a poor player. Or the runner runner flush might do. But, we have a poor/marginal hand on this flop. By raising preflop we would be stuck in this hand until the river most likely.

If I check this preflop and bet the flop (I do like this move BTW) - makes your hand VERY deceptive - I probably end up calling the raise on the flop or 3 betting it. Either way, the turn brings no help making this a fold against a raise.. Of course if he's a fish warning bells/ sirens are going off on the flop raise!

Take it for what you will, just my opinion.

Nick C · #5 08-03-2005, 08:50 AM

At Party 1/2, AKo is an easy raise, from any position, when there are only limpers to you.

It's also an easy 3-bet if there's just one raise before you (unless you have a read that the raiser is an absolute rock).

It's when it's three bets to you (this won't happen often) that things get tricky, but even then, some posters (not me) will tell you that it's an easy cap.

Edit: I should mention, though (and I'm not speaking about the posted hand, here), that when you raise or 3-bet with AKo in a multiway pot, you shouldn't feel obligated to bet on the flop, versus a lot of opponents (3 or more, say, though the flop itself if a factor), when you miss.

molawn2mo · #6 08-03-2005, 09:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
aquard = awkward?

Erm, yes raise PF.

On the flop I'd check-raise to try to find out where I'm at and possibly get a free card on a blank turn. Otherwise you have to make a judgement as to how likely anyone is to have a Jack (20%?) and play your odds to hit your K/A dirty outs accordingly. I think you can call the turn here but fold if it's raised behind you. On a blank river you can check-call/fold depending on how you view your opponent's agressiveness.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

cr the flop? for a free card? you are oop. if you cr the flop you pretty much must lead the turn. where's the free card? fwiw, your reply to the op seems a bit, how should we say, unfocused.

as played, is seems correct to bet call and check fold the turn.

LesWormMurphy · #7 08-03-2005, 09:13 AM

I'll keep it simple--

You ALWAYS raise with AKo, even if it's been raised already. Your equity edge is too high to pass it up.

With so many players left to act, I don't have a clue why you'd bet-- you've got yourself 4 opponents who limped and checked, if one of them has so much as 1 jack in the hole, your almost drawing dead.

The raise/call on your part was silly-- even on the turn, the pot is only 5BB. That's a tiny pot to be chasing hopelessly like that.

Good fold on the turn..

My friend, a hand like AKo has a ton of equity so you need to be raising with a hand like that. However when your first to act, with 4 players in front of you, missed the flop entirely-- you risk being raised on a tiny pot of which you've got no piece whatsoever.

Calling too much is a VERY costly mistake. Be careful.

Take care.

Nick C · #8 08-03-2005, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'll keep it simple--

You ALWAYS raise with AKo, even if it's been raised already. Your equity edge is too high to pass it up.

With so many players left to act, I don't have a clue why you'd bet-- you've got yourself 4 opponents who limped and checked, if one of them has so much as 1 jack in the hole, your almost drawing dead.

The raise/call on your part was silly-- even on the turn, the pot is only 5BB. That's a tiny pot to be chasing hopelessly like that.

Good fold on the turn..

My friend, a hand like AKo has a ton of equity so you need to be raising with a hand like that. However when your first to act, with 4 players in front of you, missed the flop entirely-- you risk being raised on a tiny pot of which you've got no piece whatsoever.

Calling too much is a VERY costly mistake. Be careful.

Take care.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I'm sorry, but this is really hard to follow.

Anyway, I think Hero's postflop play is all right, though I might have just check-called the flop.

oreogod · #9 08-03-2005, 09:30 AM

Raise preflop and bet the flop. The way u played it, I check-raise the flop (although I still favor the flop bet), lead the turn (if there is no 3-bet on the flop).

W. Deranged · #10 08-03-2005, 09:39 AM

Why, if it is not correct to raise AK pre-flop from the BB into a large field, is it correct to lead that hand (with the same size pot, same number of players, etc...) from the BB after the flop has basically completely missed you?

We raise pre-flop because it is basically gaurenteed that we have a significant equity edge and will win well more than our fair share (we win something around 70-80% more than average, depending on villain's ranges... I think).

Once the flop comes, we have much less reason to think we have any equity edge. Pocket pairs and any J have clear edges on us now, and flush draws also eat into the power of our overcards. We will not not likely drive five other players into the hand with a bet. If we just get called on the flop, the turn becomes a challenge, because often villain's with J's will wait to spring on the turn, and so we are forced with either check-calling and have no idea if we're drawing dead, bet-folding (and spending a bet without seeing the river), or check-folding, none of which is cool.