O8 tourney question

[turnipmonster]

you are down to 4 handed, and you have 3 big blinds left. what types of hands do you want to be allin with pf in O8? obviously aces and things like that, but what else?

--turnipmonster

[DeepFryer]

For all-in decisions you should also consider things like position, stack sizes, and the probability that someone else will get eliminated if you decide not to play the hand. Basically, if another short stack is already all-in, I would only play with a very good hand.

Is this a sit & go where only the top 3 places pay out? If so, I would probably play a bit tighter than I would if fourth place also won some money.

But anyway, with just 3 BB's left I'm going all in with almost anything. Especially if no one has entered the pot yet and you have at least some chance of making a low hand (ex: I would be very happy to get a hand like QT24 in this situation, as people will probably call your all-in with an even worse hand, and you have a decent chance to scoop the pot).

[Wintermute]

If it looks like it's going to be a heads up situation, a pair is a big plus.

If it looks like it will be multiway, then I'd prefer an unpaired hand with strong low cards (although I'd prefer a fold to a multiway pot if you're not in a blind).

[turnipmonster]

are you guys ever folding A2 rag rag?

[gergery]

pairs with 2 low cards,
Ax where x is low,
3 low cards that are double suited and have straight potential

are all cards I'd play when that short.

[mshalen]

You have, if I read it right, a stack of 3BB which with 4 people means you have about 8-12 hands before you are blinded off. This means you have almost no equity. What sizes are the other stacks? How do the other players play? Are you the lowest stack or is there someone lower?

You should have become aggressive long before your stack got so low. At this point you are basicly hosed. In a tourney you cannot sit and wait for cash games types of hands. Check out Harrington's books for tourney play.

To any additional posters: PLEASE DON'T RESPOND THAT HARRINGTON IS ABOUT HOLDEM! The book has excellent info on tourney strategy, especially short handed and heads up play.

[turnipmonster]

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What sizes are the other stacks? How do the other players play? Are you the lowest stack or is there someone lower?


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it's a hypothetical situation, but let's say all other stacks are 10BB. everyone plays decent but not exceptional.

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You should have become aggressive long before your stack got so low.


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how do you think our stack got so low [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ?

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At this point you are basicly hosed. In a tourney you cannot sit and wait for cash games types of hands.

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I am, believe it or not, aware of this. what I am wondering is, given the situation, it is right to raise with hands like A2xx,JJT5. basically, am I looking for the best high hand I am likely to get? how valuable is A2 in this situation?

[Wintermute]

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what I am wondering is, given the situation, it is right to raise with hands like A2xx,JJT5. basically, am I looking for the best high hand I am likely to get? how valuable is A2 in this situation?

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Look. Basically it's read hard to make a mistake when you only have 3 BB to work with. Very few O8 hands are so bad that they match up in a way that you won't be getting correct odds to play them with a stack that short. So things like reads, stack sizes of other players, how likely they are to screw off and let you move up in money without playing a hand, and so on are FAR more important things to consider than what hand to play.

FWIW, I'm playing any A2 for the max, and any pocket pair J's or higher if I can get it heads up, especially if I have two low cards, but really this is a stupid post (sorry) because there is no correct response that doesn't depend on hypotheticals about additional specific details of the situation to those that you've supplied here.

[mshalen]

I didn't mean to be insulting, thought this was an actual hand. Lately we are getting a lot of post from people with tourney questions and no experience playing in tourneys or sngs. So generally replies address the basics.

Personally with a small stack, late in a tourney, I am pushing any good low hand or high hand with pairs.

[gergery]

You are looking, as always, for a hand that has the best chance to scoop but that can win 1-way or the other if it doesn’t scoop.

Compared with holdem, the hand values will run closer together since its shorthanded. So fold equity becomes more important, and you should place more emphasis on trying to pick one of your opponents that will fold. So I’d raise with any hand I was going to play and pick on the tighties.

And as in holdem, with 3bb you need to play hands that are in the 30-60% range of quality; hands that are EV- but less EV- than waiting. That range of hands in O8 are things like Ax where x=5,6,7,8; any pair with 2 low cards, straight runs that have lows, KKxx, QQxx, 2 lows with 2 high cards. I would probably not play JJTx but would with slightly better sidecards.

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I am, believe it or not, aware of this

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Sure, and next you’ll try telling us you’re a winning big bet player [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]