Why does "straddling" upset some players?

[ijustliketoplay]

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It pisses me off because it allows someone to act out of turn
I dont give two shits if you wanna raise blind but you should not be allowed to act last preflop

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But they are paying 2xBB for the privelige!! It is -EV! You should be encouraging it you fool.

[johnc]

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Old rocks would rather lose a thousand dollars than have their aces get cracked just one time.

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Amen brother. Well said.

Other things that old rocks do not like:

- playing alone. Rocks collect like gravel at tables. They like to have two or three other rocks right beside them so that they can criticize everyone with impunity.
- Playing anything under KK for more than 2 bets. The fact that they have KK means you're an idiot for playing those suited connectors on the button with the three other callers between you and the rock. If they are playing JJ, you're a bigger idiot.
- having their flush draws stomped by a full house. AK suited is another favorite rock hand that is impossible to beat, unless of course you know anything about the game. Try knocking over AK suited that makes flush with your boat AFTER some juice pig has straddled and see what happens. It's like their grand kids have been murdered.
- they don't like people discovering that they are deaf. While the quarry of rocks may share information at 90 decibel whisper levels at "their end" of the table, your quiet snickering with fellow players at the other end is treated as rude behavior. A rock will tell his fellow rocks what a dimwitted lottery player you are, in a loud voice, and then get pissed at you for sharing a poker story at the other end of the table...because they cannot freaking hear you.

Sorry about the rant. I just had to comment on my least-favorite people. I don't know why people are always going off about young guys wearing sunglasses. Who cares? They usually have hot girlfriends and they often play stink poker. The old rocks really drag the mood into the swamp sometimes, especially when they start picking on the fish.

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Old rock story: 4/8, a black lady (habitual straddler) is constantly raising in late position, regardless of how many limpers are in, with anything. She raises with 86o, the SB & I (BB) fold and an old rock in early postion and a couple of the limpers call. The flop comes 86x rainbow and of course everyone checks she bets and just the old rock calls. The turn is jack the old rock bets, she raises, he reraises, she calls. The river is a blank and the rock bets, she calls. With a smug little smile she proudly flips over her two pair and he shows a set of jacks. She gets pissed and yells at the old rock "you called me with a pair of jacks?" he replies "well, you give me the odds to draw and I'm gunna take 'em!" Everyone at the table laughs and she procedes to go on tilt. Rock's revenge!

[StellarWind]

The blinds typically have EV equal to about 1/2 their blind payment. The straddler is effectively taking some of that money and redistributing it to the rest of the table. So if you're doing this constantly you're hurting the two players to your right and they have a valid reason to be unhappy with you.

The other thing you need to consider is why people play poker. It's true you are distributing your money to the table and that appeals to me. But let's be honest here. I also like to play hands and you are greatly reducing the number of hands I can profitably play by making it 3+ bets on every hand. But again I'll console myself with your money.

What about the 80%+ players who lose? If this were just about money they would (should) quit poker. Some of them are here to *gamble* and maybe you're just the ticket for them. But others are here to *play* and you're depriving them of their fun and the're still losing despite your generosity, especially since it's the good players who adapt and make a killing in wild games.

My view is that if people want to straddle that's fine. But as an educated winning player I hold myself to a higher standard. I'm not going to make a play solely for my entertainment that knowingly puts some opponents at a disadvantage to the rest of the game. Nor am I going to spread misery if most of my customers prefer a peaceful game. They deserve to have fun while I take their money.

Now if most of the players enjoy this stuff and I need to make a sacrifice to maintain my image or enliven the game, that's different. As long as the straddle is part of a plan to win money it's perfectly fair.

[andyfox]

It, in effect, raises the stakes and add an element of uncertainty. When you raise after looking at your cards, the staddle-haters can put you, rightly or wrongly, on a hand. When you raise blind, all bets are off (so to speak). Nits hate this.

"Try knocking over AK suited that makes flush with your boat AFTER some juice pig has straddled and see what happens. It's like their grand kids have been murdered."


LMFAO...That [censored] is funny.

[octop]

I only play NL so take it for what its worth. Call me a nit or whatever but I don't see why you should be allowed to raise when it gets back to you
Why cant I buy the button for a BB on the flop for 4 dollars?

[KenProspero]

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I think the players that dislike the straddle probably tend to be the ones that play poker for time played/money loss ratio. Simply put, you can play poker for a lot longer for a lot less money than just about any other casino game.

Players driven by this motivation would naturally be annoyed by anything that plays havoc with their plan. These things would include the straddle, "excessive raising" and loose/marginal plays that "steal" pots they "should have won".

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Players like this, who get upset at others' -ev plays are losers the moment they sit down at the table.

[KenProspero]

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Only time straddling bothers me is when the game is
otherwise passive, and it's my big blind.

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yeah, losing the free play sucks, but sometime when this happens try raising the straddle on even a whisper of the hand. A surprising number of times, the straddler is just trying to bully the table. If you fight back and punish his play, he'll often fold and quickly give up this strategy.

[mosquito]

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Only time straddling bothers me is when the game is
otherwise passive, and it's my big blind.

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yeah, losing the free play sucks, but sometime when this happens try raising the straddle on even a whisper of the hand. A surprising number of times, the straddler is just trying to bully the table. If you fight back and punish his play, he'll often fold and quickly give up this strategy.

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Actually some of the folks do it as a way to be a maniac
without looking as silly. Like it really works. LOL

It's an attitude thing, there's always going to be a
split of opinion. People that want to gamb00l are feeding
the pot bottom line.

[mosch]

I wish I was surprised by all the straddle-haters in this thread, but the fact is I'm not. 2+2 is filled with mediocre, weak-tight poker "players" who despise gambling, yet voluntarily play poker.

Grow a set and look for places to re-raise.

If you've got bad position, ask for a seat change button and mention your bad luck if anybody asks why.