The wtfsvi thread. (Combating long term tilt.) - Page 2

edge · #11 08-02-2005, 03:49 AM

When you're hitting cards, it feels like you're playing well. When you miss a lot, it feels like you're playing poorly. It's really hard to actually distinguish between a stretch of bad luck and a stretch of bad play after you've been consistently winnning for a while, and it's very easy to convince yourself that it's the one you expect for whatever reason.

wtfsvi · #12 08-02-2005, 06:04 AM

Indeed. But my last month have definitively been a stretch of bad play. I certainly wasn't lucky, probably on the unlucky side (not so much bad beats as just not hitting hands), but I think bad play has to take most of the blame for my losing streak.

And I know I've played these last 1000 hands better. Winrate doesn't tell anything of course, other than that I've been running well. (I suppose what really tells I've been running well is the won when seen flop stat).

#13 08-02-2005, 08:09 AM

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but in all seriousness, calling a preflop raise from an UTG player whom you say yourself is pretty solid with as marginal a hand as J-10 seems to be part of your problem. I agree with everyone else that when you're running bad you just have to tighten up even more and try to make even fewer plays on people. Calling a preflop raise from a solid UTG player with J-10 doesn't fit into plan. You're just putting yourself in a position to have to make a difficult decision after the flop, and possibly the turn and river. I just got through a real bad run myself, and like you, I think it was a combination of bad cards and bad beats and bad play. I think it was mostly bad luck (I had 5 all in in a row that I lost, even though I went in with the best hand) but I also realized that when I was running bad my mind was often blurred and it made it more difficult to make good decisions. A hand like J-10 in this situation is exactly the thing you DON'T need here. And when the guy bets out the flop for the size of the pot, is he on a continuation bet or have an overpair. Then you get stuck with the flush draw, and then the river, which seems a pretty clear fold since he's showing no fear of the king. I mean you dumped almost $100 on this hand. Do you really want to dump a $100 on J-10? Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if this is a standard play for you, you should consider the fact that you may have some major leaks in your game that you don't realize.

#14 08-02-2005, 09:38 AM

I don't know, but against a tight-aggressive player who plays well, not just any donk, I like a push on the turn. The obvious drawing hand, OESD with QJ just made it, and a push might get him off his hand. Also, you now have a flush draw and an inside straight draw. I think that is a much stronger play than calling here. Maybe others disagree??

Frying Bob · #15 08-02-2005, 10:21 AM

Before the flop your play was good. I will call here most of the time with a big suited connector such as JTs. You are the big stack and can afford to try and break this guy. You are also behind him so if you flop big you have the best chance of maximizing. If you don't hit your hand then so what? Just release it and move on to the next hand.
However, if you hit the flop strong then you can win a huge pot right?

After the flop is where you went wrong IMO. Why not raise him here? On the flop you flopped top pair plus a gutshot draw with the 8. If he comes back over the top then you have a decision to make. Just calling here is too weak IMO.
If he has an overpair he's most likely going to re-raise you all in. If he has something like AT he still might call but atleast you'll make him think about it.

On the turn I think you should have pushed all-in or folded.
In this spot you picked up a decent card. It gives you flush outs plus a DOUBLE gutshot. You could have hit an 8 or a Q to make a straight. If he has an overpair, that'd leave you with 9 spades, 3 jacks, 3 tens, 3 8s and 3 Qs. (If his overpair is QQ though the 10 makes him a straight to beat you.) So theoretically that's a total of 21 outs you have to hit the winning hand (providing i did my math correctly which I may not have because i've been playing for 11 hours.). Give or take some cards because if he does have an overpair some of those cards make him trips that might beat your two pair or he already hit his set of kings. But if he has nothing but an overpair so far that makes you about 46% to WIN even if you get called on the turn. You figure sometimes villain folds here too. I think pushing in this spot is +EV if you don't think he somehow has QJ and nutted on the turn.

On the river I'd say you have to fold. What would he be betting all the way down that you can beat? He raised UTG so I rule out T9 or any other 2pair rag cards. He probably has KT, AT, QT, or TT and above. All those have you killed so I hope you folded it.

BTW, what's the result of the hand?

wtfsvi · #16 08-02-2005, 08:12 PM

<blockquote>Svar på:<hr />
Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if this is a standard play for you, you should consider the fact that you may have some major leaks in your game that you don't realize.

[/ QUOTE ] This hand is not standard for me. That's why I posted it, because I knew I played it bad.

wtfsvi · #17 08-02-2005, 08:18 PM

Villain shows 97o for bottom two pair.

I should dump this preflop and I should definitively push the turn in my opinion. Given that I didn't push the turn I should probably even push the river; his betting screams of AA or AK (and in terms of hand strength, that is what he had.) River call is disgusting. Oh well [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

wtfsvi · #18 08-08-2005, 01:19 AM

It feels kinda stupid posting all this, but I really think that it helps my game, so I'll keep doing it for some time. (It helps my luck at least, that's for sure [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]. I'm back into running great.)

Party:

Bonus whoring crypto (pokertracker doesn't know the difference between $ and £. Not surprising):

Hand 1: This is just a fun hand. Not much for discussion, I'm quite confident I played it right. (This guy was seriously crazy. And I was almost certain he would slowplay if he had something good. He could have a low pocket pair or he could have a seven or a six in his hand, but most of the time he wouldn't.) Part of the story is the call was an insta and I claimed it was a misclick afterwards, in hopes that he would keep bluffing me. I stacked him an orbit later on a hand where I did the betting though, so I don't know if my evil plan worked [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Hero ($130.95)
UTG ($162)
MP ($99)
CO ($105.85)
Button (seriously crazy guy) ($245.39)
SB ($97.95)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, CO calls $1, Button (seriously crazy guy) raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $30, UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button (seriously crazy guy) calls $24.

Flop: ($63.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $40, seriously crazy guy calls $215.39 (All-In), Hero calls $60.95 (All-In).

Turn: ($379.84) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($379.84) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $379.84

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ah Kc (straight, ace high).
seriously crazy guy has As 3s (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins $265.40. seriously crazy guy wins $114.44. 

Hand 2: Here's one I felt a bit uncomfortable about. The fold after loose passive MP limp-reraises was a no-brainer of course, but the reraise wasn't. Button is a 47/33/2 after about 300 hands. Really aggressive preflop and on the flop, but settles down on the turn and river if he doesn't have the goods. What do I do with this? Call? Fold? Or raise ok? I don't know.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($197.50)
BB ($146.10)
UTG ($307.75)
MP ($104.56)
Button ($167.47)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, MP calls $1, Button raises to $3, Hero (poster) raises to $10, 1 fold, MP raises to $45, Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $59

mudbuddha · #19 08-08-2005, 02:15 AM

i dont understand why u post hands like that.. why dont u post ones which have some content???

wtfsvi · #20 08-08-2005, 02:18 AM

Hand 2 has content?